2 swords for ID please.

[Hotspur]

A note briefly Jim and you may even mention this in the latest but I don't see it.

The initial contract for the U.S. official mamelukes were produced in England.

Despite my now reading more French than British influence in your last post, the majority of bladed arms coming into the U.S. after the revolution continued to be from England with Solingen the second largest supplier to American retailers and cutlers..

We could go to the twelfth inning again regarding beaded hilts but I see it a bit of a red herring in this discussion and proves nothing except even more artillery and infantry swords being produced in England. Can you show me more than one (I can think of only one example I have seen) continental maker of beaded (balls of any kind and number) hilt Eagle pommel swords for the American market?

The post federal period and French influence is a bit of a non sequitur in this thread from my perspective. I honestly see no French influence in the early American makers (of quantity) such as Rose, Starr, etc. The hussar hilts really don't look much like the French of that timeline, do they? The dove head reverse p hilts that follow that? I think not. That some sword design was symbiotic and almost universal, I really don't see the argument. Taking a real census of officers swords would (I believe) still only show the supply and demand truths of where the majority of the officer swords were being produced (England and Prussia).

Singular examples of French style and influence in some popularity by a few does not an American trend make (in my opinion). The first real turn I see in nco type swords are the short straight infantry hangers by Rose and Starr which honestly could be as German as French influenced. I see no French briquet or glaives coming to vouge until lots of extra brass was around .

Some odds and ends to toss on the ashes. Here is a French form around a lot of the 18th century (pre revolution), along with another pair with mixed feelings Quite British that pair but the spadroon blade looks almost Prussian.

Anyway, I see the major influences of domination in sword manufacture for the U.S late in the game when looking at the French styled sword in this thread. That some were individual pieces were adopted is recognized as well as some presentation swords but if we look at the demand and supply, the French goods and influence of the American federal period is lacking. Even beyond that, consider the boat shell hilt of the U.S. infantry officer sword of the 1830s not having a roman helmet but a variety of large eggs instead. All the roman helmeted swords post dating the federal period are a given and I agree that by that time, French stylings are dominating but not so during the Napoleonic/Federal period.

So anyway, when I subtract influx to America from French influences through the federal period, I come up with a remainder of the L'épée des troupes de Terre decades later with perhaps a nod in the Rose nco and one lone five ball producer from Alsace (Berger following closely the Ketland eagle and hilt). Oh, ok one more and this also from Berger, a very English looking sabre for the U.S. market

Cheers

GC