What do the holes mean??

[DaveA]

Here are three kujangs from my collection, all contemporary.

Picture 1 is a Kujang Bikang 5 holes
The blade measures 7 1/2" and 1/4" thick hand-forged spring steel. It is fully etched or engraved on both sides. It also has a 5" sharpened false-edge, fileworks; sharpened and hardened. The handle is 2 colors hardwood ("Sonokeling") with mild steel ring. The sheath is stained hardwood, carved dragon in light varnish. The overall length is 13 1/4".

Pictures 2 and 3 is a Kujang with pamor Sersan 3 holes
-
Style / Dapur: Kujang
- Surface Pattern: Sersan
- Sheath and handle made from sonokeling wood
- Length of the blade is app. 25 cm
- Total length is app. 40 cm

Picture 4 is a Kujang with pamor naga rangsang no holes!
- Style / Dapur: Kujang
- Surface Pattern: Naga Rangsang
- Sheath and handle made from sonokeling wood
- Length of the blade is app. 25 cm
- Total length is app. 42 cm

[LPCA]

Hello,

Here under, a translation of the French text on the Kijang-Kudi in my study on Keris ( my site Blade http://blade.japet.com/KRISS/K-Arme-.../Kudi/Kudi.htm). It does not claim that's the truth.


Originally from West Java (Pasundan - Sundan), the Kujang (Kudi) was first an agricultural widespread.

- By the XII°, it takes value as talisman with a blade having two characteristics:

- the shape of the island of "Djawa Dwipa" (the current Java) representing the ideal of unification of small kingdoms into one empire.
- 3 holes in the blade representing the Trimurti or three main aspects of Hindu religion: Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva (also representing the three main kingdoms of Java).

- When the Muslim influence grew, the base of Kujang (corresponding to the country geographically Sundan) was modified to take the form of the Arabic letter "Syin" (first letter of the verse "Syahadat" by which the devotee expresses belonging to Islam). Similarly, five holes representing the five pillars of Islam has replaced on the blade the 3 holes of the Trimurti.

Usually, they are talismans worn by Pawang (magicians) and Brahman. The variety of derivative forms is important. It can be mounted either on a short handle or shaft of a spear.

Hope that help.

Louis-Pierre

[Jim McDougall]

Absolutely fantastic information Dave and Louis-Pierre!!! Thank you so much.
Truly a fascinating weapon with this history and explanation of thier symbolism.

All best regards,
Jim

[LPCA]

Hi Jim

Have a glance please to the Takouba team as we had some talks (Iain and I)

Have a nice day.
LP

[David]

Thought you might be interested in an older example (dress is contemporary)...four holes...now i wonder what THAT means...

[A. G. Maisey]

Perhaps David we should consider this to be 3 holes + 1 hole?

Oh goodness me I love this esoteric hypothesising.

Interestingly Harsrinuksmo, who was not at all shy about floating the odd hypothesis here and there did not say much at all in this regard about kudis and kujangs.

What he did say was that the people who might have known were long gone.

Something I personally find very interesting is that with the passing of time how much more previously unknown information becomes available for us to be astonished by.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Perhaps David we should consider this to be 3 holes + 1 hole?

Oh goodness me I love this esoteric hypothesising.

Interestingly Harsrinuksmo, who was not at all shy about floating the odd hypothesis here and there did not say much at all in this regard about kudis and kujangs.

What he did say was that the people who might have known were long gone.

Something I personally find very interesting is that with the passing of time how much more previously unknown information becomes available for us to be astonished by.

Well Alan, i suppose the "logical" hypothesis with my 3+1 hole kudi is that it is some kind of transition piece between Hindu and Islamic. :-)
Maybe the owner was a Hindu who had a Muslim son-in-law...
Honestly i find the hypothesizing to be an interesting exercise. My only problem is that we must be very careful to remember that in the end we really haven't a clue and that we don't propagate any of this "information" as fact. Dave's retelling of what a dealer in Solo (whose is selling him contemporary kudi as Dave has noted) told him about the significance of these holes is long and detailed including the names of empus and dates and places. This report has an air of authority and certainty (partly due to all the names and dates), but what is the real source of this information? It would be very tempting to accept this report as fact and just as tempting to pass it along next time the question arises. But is it fact or merely a salesman's pitch? I don't think there is any way that we can tell for sure.
Jim's thought on the subject show just how easy it is to pass along a theory in his research that might well be taken as fact by another reader. Jim may well have read it think it just a theory, but when an idea is presented again and again it very often has a nasty habit of taking on a life of its own. Krockew's reporting of these same ideas was no more supported by any solid evidence as Dave's dealer story (names and dates not withstanding) so it remains nothing more than a hypothesis IMHO.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

Thought you might be interested in an older example (dress is contemporary)...four holes...now i wonder what THAT means...

'OK, splain THIS!!!'
-Ricky Ricardo

[DaveA]

Hello all,

I'm resurrecting this thread (perhaps too strong a word) since I stumbled upon a diagram today that associates the number of holes in a kudi/kujang with the number of months in a pregnancy (1 to 9). The original can be found here: http://picturepush.com/+bQhR

There are also some interesting other graphs showing varieties of Kudi / Kujang that you can click through to visit.

Best,

Dave A.

[NotoriousCal]

Originally Posted by DaveA

Here are three kujangs from my collection, all contemporary.

Picture 1 is a Kujang Bikang 5 holes
The blade measures 7 1/2" and 1/4" thick hand-forged spring steel. It is fully etched or engraved on both sides. It also has a 5" sharpened false-edge, fileworks; sharpened and hardened. The handle is 2 colors hardwood ("Sonokeling") with mild steel ring. The sheath is stained hardwood, carved dragon in light varnish. The overall length is 13 1/4".

Pictures 2 and 3 is a Kujang with pamor Sersan 3 holes
-
Style / Dapur: Kujang
- Surface Pattern: Sersan
- Sheath and handle made from sonokeling wood
- Length of the blade is app. 25 cm
- Total length is app. 40 cm

Picture 4 is a Kujang with pamor naga rangsang no holes!
- Style / Dapur: Kujang
- Surface Pattern: Naga Rangsang
- Sheath and handle made from sonokeling wood
- Length of the blade is app. 25 cm
- Total length is app. 42 cm

do those blades have meteorite in them?

[David]

Originally Posted by NotoriousCal

do those blades have meteorite in them?

Cal, there is only ONE non-destructive way to determine if a blade has meteoric content to it. That is to give the meteorite to the smith yourself and stand over them an watch them forge it into your blade. Anything else is merely guesses.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by NotoriousCal

do those blades have meteorite in them?

I have no reason to think they are anything other than steel.

[Rafngard]

Hello all,

Does anyone know if the article VVV mentions in this post ever got published?

Thanks,
Leif