Oman, Morocco or Zanzibar?

[LPCA]

Hi friend Jim,
I am glad too to meet you again on our favourite battlefield....

First, we must admit that all authors dont have the same seriousness. Some are truly pioneers and researchers such as Stone and Buttin ....who document their definition and are very careful in the use of words. Others, while compiling an outstanding job, have a more commercial approach and uses terms that are insufficiently documented and taking the force of law for collectors .. and die hard!!.
For example, the term Flissa, Flyssa, ...., straight sword of the Kabyle of Algeria, is the name given by the Foreign Legion in the 1850's during the conquest of Kabylia. It comes from the name of a tribe of Petite Kabylie: the Ifflissen Ibn Bahr. This weapon is typically Kabyle. However, we often find it described as Berber from Morocco (Kabyle are berber, but from Algeria). If you ask a Kabyle what is a Flyssa, it ignores it. He will say Sekkim or Iskin (knife in Arabic) or Imus (Tamazight).

Zanzibar: Arab dhows terminus of the monsoon before becoming the dependence of Oman (late XVII-late XIX), it was an important trade harbour for exchanges between African and Arab worlds. In addition the proximity of many mines in East Africa allowed it to become a major center of iron working. However, the Arabian Peninsula had no resources in iron. By cons, purchase orders of weapons were Arabs and had to match their taste. Therefore it would be more accurate to say Arab Saïf producted in Zanzibar.

Falling quillions
Among its nine swords, the Prophet had 3 with falling quillons of which the first one Al-Mhatur which was bequeathed by his father. So they existed at the VII. (see Sabres de Mahomet in Topkapi collection)

Also listed on the Bas-relief "Combat of David and Goliath" of Gagik (Armenia 920), the falling quillons equiped without doubt the swords from the Hispano-Moorish XI. They are found on Grenada Jinete produced from the thirteenth (ref: Chronica in Alfonso X -1221 to 1284) and copied by Christians from the fifteenth (ref: Sword of the last Moorish king Boabdil).

Hand guard - D Guard

Italian origin:
For some, quillons handle and hand guard is of Italian origin, or at least, was known to the Arab XV-XVIth by the trade routes from Genoa and Venice (Robert Elgood - "Arms & Armour of Arabia "1994).
Weapons of reference would be:
Shiavone-the name of the Italian basket sword at the end of XV-XVII (sword of the slave Guard of Doge of Venice).
or Fauchon (French) or Falchion (English): short sword with wide blade convex edge of the Middle Age.

North African origin:
see the attached picture of a Spanish sword of the fifteenth (part of search - Collection of Charles Buttin). Inspired by North African, it is a sword of transition (or espada of patillas ) with short handle with one hand, hand guard, hilt down and two rings for the passage of the index to consolidate the shot.
It seems that the models had the Hispano-Moorish hand guard before the fifteenth (ie, before the Italian track ...) at a time when the guards of the European were still in cross.

Sinhalese origin:
Another track explores the possibility of transmission to the Arabs by the Sinhalese. It seems that there were very early (before Islam) trade relations between the Arabian Peninsula and the island of Ceylon.
The handle of the Kastane of Ceylon has all the elements of the Moroccan and Arabic Guard (cf. Charles Buttin and Alain Jacob).
The Kastane have quillons in which a hand guard (side of the edge) and two inner glued to the blade.

I am not really sure that you will understand my poor english. I just hope...

LOUIS-PIERRE

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by LPCA

Hi friend Jim,
I am glad too to meet you again on our favourite battlefield....

First, we must admit that all authors dont have the same seriousness. Some are truly pioneers and researchers such as Stone and Buttin ....who document their definition and are very careful in the use of words. Others, while compiling an outstanding job, have a more commercial approach and uses terms that are insufficiently documented and taking the force of law for collectors .. and die hard!!.
For example, the term Flissa, Flyssa, ...., straight sword of the Kabyle of Algeria, is the name given by the Foreign Legion in the 1850's during the conquest of Kabylia. It comes from the name of a tribe of Petite Kabylie: the Ifflissen Ibn Bahr. This weapon is typically Kabyle. However, we often find it described as Berber from Morocco (Kabyle are berber, but from Algeria). If you ask a Kabyle what is a Flyssa, it ignores it. He will say Sekkim or Iskin (knife in Arabic) or Imus (Tamazight).

Zanzibar: Arab dhows terminus of the monsoon before becoming the dependence of Oman (late XVII-late XIX), it was an important trade harbour for exchanges between African and Arab worlds. In addition the proximity of many mines in East Africa allowed it to become a major center of iron working. However, the Arabian Peninsula had no resources in iron. By cons, purchase orders of weapons were Arabs and had to match their taste. Therefore it would be more accurate to say Arab Saïf producted in Zanzibar.

Falling quillions
Among its nine swords, the Prophet had 3 with falling quillons of which the first one Al-Mhatur which was bequeathed by his father. So they existed at the VII. (see Sabres de Mahomet in Topkapi collection)

Also listed on the Bas-relief "Combat of David and Goliath" of Gagik (Armenia 920), the falling quillons equiped without doubt the swords from the Hispano-Moorish XI. They are found on Grenada Jinete produced from the thirteenth (ref: Chronica in Alfonso X -1221 to 1284) and copied by Christians from the fifteenth (ref: Sword of the last Moorish king Boabdil).

Hand guard - D Guard

Italian origin:
For some, quillons handle and hand guard is of Italian origin, or at least, was known to the Arab XV-XVIth by the trade routes from Genoa and Venice (Robert Elgood - "Arms & Armour of Arabia "1994).
Weapons of reference would be:
Shiavone-the name of the Italian basket sword at the end of XV-XVII (sword of the slave Guard of Doge of Venice).
or Fauchon (French) or Falchion (English): short sword with wide blade convex edge of the Middle Age.

North African origin:
see the attached picture of a Spanish sword of the fifteenth (part of search - Collection of Charles Buttin). Inspired by North African, it is a sword of transition (or espada of patillas ) with short handle with one hand, hand guard, hilt down and two rings for the passage of the index to consolidate the shot.
It seems that the models had the Hispano-Moorish hand guard before the fifteenth (ie, before the Italian track ...) at a time when the guards of the European were still in cross.

Sinhalese origin:
Another track explores the possibility of transmission to the Arabs by the Sinhalese. It seems that there were very early (before Islam) trade relations between the Arabian Peninsula and the island of Ceylon.
The handle of the Kastane of Ceylon has all the elements of the Moroccan and Arabic Guard (cf. Charles Buttin and Alain Jacob).
The Kastane have quillons in which a hand guard (side of the edge) and two inner glued to the blade.

I am not really sure that you will understand my poor english. I just hope...

LOUIS-PIERRE

Salaams LOUIS-PIERRE,

Your reference to Sinhalese Kastane is interesting since it is generally accepted that the "influence" came the other way from Italy and Venice via the Red sea and possibly Zanzibar to Sri Lanka... and that the arabs settled in many coastal regions in Sri Lanka making a plausible sword link up to what is now an Iconic emblem . It does however look very Oriental and I wonder if the influence could have been from the Chinese... or is this design a Sinhalese thoroughbred.... or a crossbreed?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kahnjar1]

Just received this one. Zanzibari......or Arabian made in Zanzibar?
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Just received this one. Zanzibari......or Arabian made in Zanzibar?
Stu

Salaams...Looks like a Magrebi Nimcha. Ibrahiim.

[A.alnakkas]

Nice one Stu, congrats. Looks Zanzibari imo.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams...Looks like a Magrebi Nimcha. Ibrahiim.

NOT Magreb. The Magreb (Moroccan) has the dropping quillons and no D "guard"
Stu

[A.alnakkas]

What about this type?

http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=3864

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

What about this type?

http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=3864

Zanzibar IMHO. There is also another on this site.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

What about this type?

http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=3864

Eid Mubarak! Salaams from Buraimi !! Kind regards from the entire team !! We hope you are well . Actually we hope you get a chance to pop over to the Tareq Rajeb Museum in Kuwait as they have a brilliant collection of Arabian Arms and even an old Omani Original Kattara from me years ago. I looked at the link you post and sure enough it is Yemeni. It is my advice that The Yemeni Nimcha is a style in its own right as are the Magrebi, Algerian, Saudia, Zanzibari and Sri Lankan versions. The Yemeni Nimcha.

Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

NOT Magreb. The Magreb (Moroccan) has the dropping quillons and no D "guard"
Stu

Salaams Stu ~ Very good point ! The D Guard . Not Magreb,, agreed . Not Zanzibar either . Its a Yemeni Nimcha. The list of countries that have Nimcha specific styles grows longer. Magreb, Algeria, Saudia, Zanzibar, Sri Lanka, and the one which I forgot about ...The Yemeni Nimcha.
Louis Pierre... kind regards and thank you for the pictures and comparisons and I agree the door to the east remains wide open in this regard.
Kurt ... Salaams and your pictures of the Zanzibar perfect style at #1 and # 23 are superb.

Regards Ibrahim al Balooshi.