Sawfish sword

VANDOO · 23rd July 2005, 12:19 AM

NO APOLOGIES NECESSARY TIM, I DIDN'T REALLY TAKE IT PERSONEL.

THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW TIMES IN THE PAST WHEN SUBJECTS WERE DEBATED HERE ON THE FORUM, THIS DOSEN'T WORK WELL AS IN DEBATE ONE SIDE MUST WIN BY DESTROYING OR OUT POINTING THE OTHER. MANY TRICKS ARE USED TO WIN OR SHAKE UP THE OPPONENT INSULTING THE OTHER SIDES POINT OF VIEW AND ASKING FOR CONCRETE PROOF BEING TWO OF THEM. WHILE THINGS CAN BE LEARNED IN DEBATE, I FEEL THAT DISCUSSION WITH SEVERAL POINTS OF VIEW BOTH RIGHT AND WRONG IS MORE PRODUCTIVE. I MAY GIVE MY OPINION OR WHAT FACTS I HAVE WHICH MAY DIFFER FROM PREVIOUS OPINIONS BUT WON'T REFER TO THE OTHER GUYS VIEWS AS PSYCOBABBEL OR FEEBLE MINDED. IT IS A KIND OF COURTESY I PRACTICE AND SOMETIMES I LEARN FROM BEING WRONG OR SEEING SOMEONE ELSE MAKE A MISTAKE AND OCCASIONALY I AM TOTALY BAFFELED AS TO HOW THEY COME UP WITH SOME IDEAS. I SUSPECT SOME OF MY VIEWS MAY FALL INTO THIS LAST BAFFELING CATAGORY

fearn · 23rd July 2005, 02:28 AM

Hi Tim and Vandoo,

I don't take "sailor-made" as an epithet either. I love scrimshaw work and knot-work. I was simply thinking of something that someone made, not for warfare or ritual, but because they had a large sawfish bill and some time on their hands.

Neat as this sawbill is, the thing about it is that almost anyone could have made it, using (for instance) a saw, a knife, a file, and some black paint (or tar, or lacquer, or tree gum). It's so simple that's it's lacking the clues we need for a good provenance. Given a suitable sawfish bill, I could make something like that in an afternoon using my Leatherman, and I'm quite sure that Tim could turn out something much more stylish in the same amount of time.

If you want a fanciful scenario, it could have been made by or for the teenage son of a white missionary, store owner, fisherman, or the like. It's the kind of thing that a boy would love, and that would explain its comparative design simplicity.

The other thing I'm glad we uncovered is that sawfish all appear to be listed under CITES. As with ivory, it's worth knowing that one might run into trouble with customs on these things.

F

23rd July 2005, 12:19 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	NO APOLOGIES NECESSARY TIM, I DIDN'T REALLY TAKE IT PERSONEL. THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW TIMES IN THE PAST WHEN SUBJECTS WERE DEBATED HERE ON THE FORUM, THIS DOSEN'T WORK WELL AS IN DEBATE ONE SIDE MUST WIN BY DESTROYING OR OUT POINTING THE OTHER. MANY TRICKS ARE USED TO WIN OR SHAKE UP THE OPPONENT INSULTING THE OTHER SIDES POINT OF VIEW AND ASKING FOR CONCRETE PROOF BEING TWO OF THEM. WHILE THINGS CAN BE LEARNED IN DEBATE, I FEEL THAT DISCUSSION WITH SEVERAL POINTS OF VIEW BOTH RIGHT AND WRONG IS MORE PRODUCTIVE. I MAY GIVE MY OPINION OR WHAT FACTS I HAVE WHICH MAY DIFFER FROM PREVIOUS OPINIONS BUT WON'T REFER TO THE OTHER GUYS VIEWS AS PSYCOBABBEL OR FEEBLE MINDED. IT IS A KIND OF COURTESY I PRACTICE AND SOMETIMES I LEARN FROM BEING WRONG OR SEEING SOMEONE ELSE MAKE A MISTAKE AND OCCASIONALY I AM TOTALY BAFFELED AS TO HOW THEY COME UP WITH SOME IDEAS. I SUSPECT SOME OF MY VIEWS MAY FALL INTO THIS LAST BAFFELING CATAGORY

23rd July 2005, 02:28 AM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tim and Vandoo, I don't take "sailor-made" as an epithet either. I love scrimshaw work and knot-work. I was simply thinking of something that someone made, not for warfare or ritual, but because they had a large sawfish bill and some time on their hands. Neat as this sawbill is, the thing about it is that almost anyone could have made it, using (for instance) a saw, a knife, a file, and some black paint (or tar, or lacquer, or tree gum). It's so simple that's it's lacking the clues we need for a good provenance. Given a suitable sawfish bill, I could make something like that in an afternoon using my Leatherman, and I'm quite sure that Tim could turn out something much more stylish in the same amount of time. If you want a fanciful scenario, it could have been made by or for the teenage son of a white missionary, store owner, fisherman, or the like. It's the kind of thing that a boy would love, and that would explain its comparative design simplicity. The other thing I'm glad we uncovered is that sawfish all appear to be listed under CITES. As with ivory, it's worth knowing that one might run into trouble with customs on these things. F