Restoration Workshop Library.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 18th July 2011, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Quick question about maintaining old wooden hilts.

I have an old kris whose handle "drinks" up any moisture my hand lets up on it. The patina is beautiful and i do not want to affect it or change it potentially with any kind of artificial finish, but I do want to make sure that this piece outlives me by ages and to do that I would like to maintain the handle somehow. It does not have that old wood smell, but rather smells a little musty like it has not been cared for.

All I've done to it was clean it with a toothbrush and mineral spirits, then added a very very light coat of Tru-oil (Which I believe is primarily boiled Linseed Oil) diluted with more mineral spirits to better penetrate the wood. I applied this finish with a cotton cloth.

It still looks its age and I'm not looking to shine it up at all (Rather I would like to keep it as it is -- a satin/matte finish -- as opposed to adding an overly glossy/glass-like finish), but I feel as if more should be done to it to ensure that it is preserved, as the wood still rapidly "drinks" up any moisture it encounters from my hand when compared to other pieces I have.

Should I apply more coats of oil? Would using 00000 Steel Wool be appripriate for this old wood? I do not want to remove any of the patina, just preserve it as best I can without damaging or changing how it looks.

(Photos are courtesy of Erik Farrow, who I acquired this particular piece from. the handle looks the same currently, but after the toothbrush and mineral spirits the dust from the crevices are gone.)

Salaams~ This is exactly the sort of question that this forum..with the benefit a restoration section ... could fully advise, answer and follow up. ~

Peperskull that looks like a lovely old weapon and I would be reluctant to do much to it... you will find 0000 steel wool will bring out the grain(though as I say I wouldnt bother it looks great) and for me the occasional linseed action would do nicely. Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

ThePepperSkull · 18th July 2011, 07:50 AM

Thank you for the compliments, Ibrahiim.

In that case I think I will leave as is. It already looks a bit different. The dust has been cleaned out but I tried to be the least invasive possible. Used an old soft bristle toothbrush to clean the crevices and did not use any abrasives like steel wool or sandpaper. Just a cotton cloth with some tru-oil that's been diluted with mineral spirits. My goal is not to bring out a shiny or glassy surface, rather just maintain it in its current condition as much as possible. The patina and darkened (exposed) and lighter areas (Where the hilt wrapping and former fittings used to be) are still distinct.

My only concern is the amount of moisture this wood still absorbs. I want to give it a few more coats of oil to fill the grain, but am not sure how this will affect the patina. As it is, I think it is well preserved, but like I said it "drinks" up the moisture from my hand fairly quickly still.

Would a coat of Renaissance Wax help keep a reasonably safe barrier against moisture and further deterioration or should I keep oiling it till the grain is filled? If I oil it, will that affect the patina it has built?

EDIT- Here is a pic of the entire kris in the condition I recieved it:

kai · 19th July 2011, 01:48 AM

Hi TPS,

Quote:

My only concern is the amount of moisture this wood still absorbs. I want to give it a few more coats of oil to fill the grain, but am not sure how this will affect the patina. As it is, I think it is well preserved, but like I said it "drinks" up the moisture from my hand fairly quickly still.

Would a coat of Renaissance Wax help keep a reasonably safe barrier against moisture and further deterioration or should I keep oiling it till the grain is filled?

Wax would help but also tend to give a glossy finish. I agree that repeated oiling the hilt over an extended period is preferable, especially if you're from a low-humidity climate. Just make sure to work in little amounts by intensive rubbing with your hands and don't forget to remove any excess after each session, especially from the crevices. Undiluted linseed oil is great for this but you can also apply boiled linseed oil or some other hardening oil (each formula will need some adapting). I avoid mineral oil on wood or other organic materials. None of these will affect genuine patina though - the only backdrop with utilizing natural oils is that they can favor mold in high-humidity climates if not regularly handled.

The hilt of your kris looks nice and old but I do wonder why it has so open pores - the usual antique bunti doesn't absorb a lot of moisture nor oil.

I'm afraid the ferrule/clamp construction seems dubious to me. I'd guess it's either not antique or not done by traditional Moro craftsmen (or both). Also the "fit" of the hilt on the blade looks weird with the missing katik - I'd love to examine it disassembled to verify wether these ever were intended to go together (and just got compromised by later wood shrinkage/etc.) or wether this happens to be a "forced marriage"...

Regards,
Kai

ThePepperSkull · 19th July 2011, 04:07 AM

Thanks for the advice and kind words, kai.

The wood on this was different than other kris I have handled in that it was not maintained very well. It was expremely dry when it came to me and smelled different than typical Bunti hilts. It did not simply smell old to me, rather it smelt overly musty in addition to smelling older. I suspect its "thirst" is due to its lack of care/maintenance through the years.

In terms of th handle, I agree! I don't think anyone could argue about the dubiousness of its current construction. Definitely not traditional moro. The makeshift clamp (I would be wary of calling it a proper asang-asang since it has no similarity to a proper asang-asang aside from function) is thin sheet brass as opposed to a thick clamp. It is the same thickness as the brass ferrule on the handle.

I believe both the ferrule and clamp to be something of a hasty repair. It was most likely done after the katik had broken off and the original asang-asang was lost. Definitely not typical moro construction, but I suspect it may have been done (In haste) by a moro who had limited repair tools, seeing as there is a clamp of some sort (Now this is just conjecture on my part-- but I suspect that if it were repaired in haste by someone outside of moro culture, the blade would simply have been glued or epoxied to the handle, maybe pinned as well, as opposed to being epoxied/clamped). Albeit the current clamp is not the prettiest.

As far as the wood hilt is concerned, I believe that it's original to the piece. The tang at the opening of the hilt fits very nicely and there is no sign IMO of it being being too loose a fit (No 'empty' space between the tang and hilt opening for additional shimming to tighten the fit or for extra epoxy filler). There ARE however, cracks at the opening that extende to the areas of the hilt were the cracks are visible in the pictures. I suspect that these cracks formed later due to wood shrinkage like you mentioned.

The construction of complete similar pieces to this were far FAR different, with there being a proper asang-asang attatched to metal fittings on the hilt and bound to the hilt with metal wire. It's hard to explain, but I will post pictures to better articulate what I mean about what I believe its original construction looked like.

Here is a couple of complete kris handles with the kind of construction I believe my kris was originally made to look like before its damage and repair. Note the metal wire binding and the asang-asang being attatched to the brass fitting near the kakatua pommel via more metal wires:

ThePepperSkull · 19th July 2011, 04:14 AM

More pictures of a different kris of similar construction/assembly (Albeit this one also has the katik and asang-asang missing) that gives us an insight into how my kris was originally constructed, as it still has the metal fitting near the pommel as well as the wire wrapping:

(Also, note the cracks going down the hilt of this one. Similar to the cracks in mine. Perhaps this is a constuction flaw that was common at the time?)

ThePepperSkull · 19th July 2011, 04:30 AM

(EDIT: Double post. Pls delete)

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 19th July 2011, 06:22 AM

Salaams, By including posts about restoration and repair in this thread I assume you are in favour of a restoration library which is the ultimate aim of the discussion. Already I detect a main question of oil versus wax in the questions about the keris for which it seems linseed oil is better. In a library of techniques we could include in the general index oils and waxes that forum members have experience of. Currently I am makeing my own wax from beeswax and turpentine. A section on DIY products would enhance the library. Regards Ibrahiim.

18th July 2011, 07:50 AM	#2
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Thank you for the compliments, Ibrahiim. In that case I think I will leave as is. It already looks a bit different. The dust has been cleaned out but I tried to be the least invasive possible. Used an old soft bristle toothbrush to clean the crevices and did not use any abrasives like steel wool or sandpaper. Just a cotton cloth with some tru-oil that's been diluted with mineral spirits. My goal is not to bring out a shiny or glassy surface, rather just maintain it in its current condition as much as possible. The patina and darkened (exposed) and lighter areas (Where the hilt wrapping and former fittings used to be) are still distinct. My only concern is the amount of moisture this wood still absorbs. I want to give it a few more coats of oil to fill the grain, but am not sure how this will affect the patina. As it is, I think it is well preserved, but like I said it "drinks" up the moisture from my hand fairly quickly still. Would a coat of Renaissance Wax help keep a reasonably safe barrier against moisture and further deterioration or should I keep oiling it till the grain is filled? If I oil it, will that affect the patina it has built? EDIT- Here is a pic of the entire kris in the condition I recieved it: Attached Images Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 19th July 2011 at 04:42 AM.

19th July 2011, 04:07 AM	#4
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Thanks for the advice and kind words, kai. The wood on this was different than other kris I have handled in that it was not maintained very well. It was expremely dry when it came to me and smelled different than typical Bunti hilts. It did not simply smell old to me, rather it smelt overly musty in addition to smelling older. I suspect its "thirst" is due to its lack of care/maintenance through the years. In terms of th handle, I agree! I don't think anyone could argue about the dubiousness of its current construction. Definitely not traditional moro. The makeshift clamp (I would be wary of calling it a proper asang-asang since it has no similarity to a proper asang-asang aside from function) is thin sheet brass as opposed to a thick clamp. It is the same thickness as the brass ferrule on the handle. I believe both the ferrule and clamp to be something of a hasty repair. It was most likely done after the katik had broken off and the original asang-asang was lost. Definitely not typical moro construction, but I suspect it may have been done (In haste) by a moro who had limited repair tools, seeing as there is a clamp of some sort (Now this is just conjecture on my part-- but I suspect that if it were repaired in haste by someone outside of moro culture, the blade would simply have been glued or epoxied to the handle, maybe pinned as well, as opposed to being epoxied/clamped). Albeit the current clamp is not the prettiest. As far as the wood hilt is concerned, I believe that it's original to the piece. The tang at the opening of the hilt fits very nicely and there is no sign IMO of it being being too loose a fit (No 'empty' space between the tang and hilt opening for additional shimming to tighten the fit or for extra epoxy filler). There ARE however, cracks at the opening that extende to the areas of the hilt were the cracks are visible in the pictures. I suspect that these cracks formed later due to wood shrinkage like you mentioned. The construction of complete similar pieces to this were far FAR different, with there being a proper asang-asang attatched to metal fittings on the hilt and bound to the hilt with metal wire. It's hard to explain, but I will post pictures to better articulate what I mean about what I believe its original construction looked like. Here is a couple of complete kris handles with the kind of construction I believe my kris was originally made to look like before its damage and repair. Note the metal wire binding and the asang-asang being attatched to the brass fitting near the kakatua pommel via more metal wires: Attached Images Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 19th July 2011 at 09:03 AM.

19th July 2011, 04:14 AM	#5
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	More pictures of a different kris of similar construction/assembly (Albeit this one also has the katik and asang-asang missing) that gives us an insight into how my kris was originally constructed, as it still has the metal fitting near the pommel as well as the wire wrapping: (Also, note the cracks going down the hilt of this one. Similar to the cracks in mine. Perhaps this is a constuction flaw that was common at the time?) Attached Images Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 19th July 2011 at 04:59 AM.

19th July 2011, 04:30 AM	#6
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	(EDIT: Double post. Pls delete) Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 19th July 2011 at 04:41 AM.

19th July 2011, 06:22 AM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams, By including posts about restoration and repair in this thread I assume you are in favour of a restoration library which is the ultimate aim of the discussion. Already I detect a main question of oil versus wax in the questions about the keris for which it seems linseed oil is better. In a library of techniques we could include in the general index oils and waxes that forum members have experience of. Currently I am makeing my own wax from beeswax and turpentine. A section on DIY products would enhance the library. Regards Ibrahiim.