Unpretentious Ottoman dagger

Norman McCormick · 15th July 2011, 01:08 PM

Hi Dom,
Your dagger reminds me of one of mine, see photo. I don't think these were ever intended as weapons more like a piece of masculine adornment like the sgian dhu we Scots wear with the kilt nowadays, the blade being almost secondary to the hilt and scabbard. I noticed on one of your photographs that the scabbard and hilt do not meet exactly when the dagger is sheathed, mine is the same. I think this is evidence of how it was worn, a dagger thrust into a belt/sash at the front of the body would get like this over time from the wearer bending/sitting down etc. Mine although undated is also 19thC. I think it is nice to have everyday items in ones collection as well as the spectacular.
My Regards,
Norman.

Dom · 16th July 2011, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

I think it is nice to have everyday items in ones collection as well as the spectacular.

Hi Norman
it seems that our two daggers, have more or less the same origin, although they resemble

be it of dagger of adornment, I want to believe,
the blade did not make me a great impression

apart from the "cartouche" with the date,
it's what decided me to buy,
other reason to purchase it was,
a real resemblance with an other dagger with me, clearly identifiable, as Ottoman/Egyptian ("Mamluk")
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13687
thanks to have share with me your considerations
best regards

à +

Dom

ALEX · 31st October 2011, 07:01 PM

Whereas Norman's dagger looks more authentic 19th Century or about, Dom's dagger is not quite. Where would one see similar reference? and why compare to something else based on shape alone and disregarding major structural elements?:-) those discs and stamped decorative embelishments look bizzare. Ask yourself: "would they inspire respect and admiration from 19th century Ottoman onlookers?":-) Here are a few similar, I'd call Fantasy Daggers, one very similar and one of the same class.
Dom, you asked for honest opinion, right?:-)

Dom · 5th November 2011, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Dom, you asked for honest opinion, right?:-)

Hi Alex
yes, I got it, thanks Alex

but in same time, i saw somewhere, a more or less similar dagger,
referenced as a "dagger's of Ottoman soldier" (I didn't wrote ... Officer ... but soldier)

as said Norman: "I think it is nice to have everyday items in our collection",
I didn't bought it as exceptional item, but just coz was very cheap,
and at my eyes a potential if was refurbished

your comments are absolutely pertinents Alex, thanks again to have answered

à +

Dom

ALEX · 5th November 2011, 08:58 AM

Dom, the discs are stamped and applied to the metal. In general technique's terms, such method is not something I'd consider authentic. That was used very late in 20th C on some metalware items like ewers, pots, etc. This is why I used the term "fantasy". Also, it looks quite flat in profile, resembling more Iraqi jambiya than Ottoman dagger.
Any other substantiated opinions/comments from others?

Gavin Nugent · 5th November 2011, 10:11 AM

Not my area of interest at all nor do I wish to enter in to what's new and what's not but I do wish to note, from another cultural sphere, the Italian all brass Romani folders from the 1860s onwards also had applied stamped discs.

15th July 2011, 01:08 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hi Dom, Your dagger reminds me of one of mine, see photo. I don't think these were ever intended as weapons more like a piece of masculine adornment like the sgian dhu we Scots wear with the kilt nowadays, the blade being almost secondary to the hilt and scabbard. I noticed on one of your photographs that the scabbard and hilt do not meet exactly when the dagger is sheathed, mine is the same. I think this is evidence of how it was worn, a dagger thrust into a belt/sash at the front of the body would get like this over time from the wearer bending/sitting down etc. Mine although undated is also 19thC. I think it is nice to have everyday items in ones collection as well as the spectacular. My Regards, Norman. Attached Images

31st October 2011, 07:01 PM	#3
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Whereas Norman's dagger looks more authentic 19th Century or about, Dom's dagger is not quite. Where would one see similar reference? and why compare to something else based on shape alone and disregarding major structural elements?:-) those discs and stamped decorative embelishments look bizzare. Ask yourself: "would they inspire respect and admiration from 19th century Ottoman onlookers?":-) Here are a few similar, I'd call Fantasy Daggers, one very similar and one of the same class. Dom, you asked for honest opinion, right?:-) Attached Images

5th November 2011, 08:58 AM	#5
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Dom, the discs are stamped and applied to the metal. In general technique's terms, such method is not something I'd consider authentic. That was used very late in 20th C on some metalware items like ewers, pots, etc. This is why I used the term "fantasy". Also, it looks quite flat in profile, resembling more Iraqi jambiya than Ottoman dagger. Any other substantiated opinions/comments from others? Last edited by ALEX; 5th November 2011 at 09:09 AM.

5th November 2011, 10:11 AM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Not my area of interest at all nor do I wish to enter in to what's new and what's not but I do wish to note, from another cultural sphere, the Italian all brass Romani folders from the 1860s onwards also had applied stamped discs.