Unusual grip solution on a klewang

fearn · 11th July 2011, 03:33 PM

Neat piece!

A couple of observations:

The first is that this blade may have been made for someone who was missing some fingers or parts of fingers. It would make it easier to retain the blade (a good thing), and make it easier to swing around the index finger or whatever was left of it.

The second is that if the blade has any scarring, it would tell us what it was used for. Marks from agricultural work look a bit different than parries on blades. Similarly, there may be scars on that hook that will elucidate what it was used for.

Best,

F

Maurice · 11th July 2011, 05:57 PM

Maybe this "fingerhook" isn't a fingerhook at all??
It could be some kind of hook to prevent that an attack with an opponents blade (parried with the edge of Michael's weapon) ends up in the fingerzone whoever held Michael's sword....(like the protrusions of a "sai" or "sikoe-sikoe", but than smaller)...

I wouldn't hold my finger above this hook when being in a bladefight.
My fingers would be behind this protrusion, and I would try to parry all attacks with the edge of the blade....
But on the image I can't see if there is enough space to hold the handle behind this hook with the whole hand...

Maurice

VVV · 11th July 2011, 09:43 PM

Thanks all for your comments.
It doesn't seem like there is another one like it in other regions based on the answers?
Here are my comments on your feedback and ideas:
For me - with a blade training in Visayan FMA (Pekiti-Tirsia), Sundanese and Maduranese IMA (Kuntao Silat de Thouars) - it doesn't restrict my wrist movements at all. When I do long range striking and twirling movements (FMA) I just have a regular grip (not really using the advantage of the finger rest). When doing broken strikes without thinking about it I just positioned my thumb along the back of the blade for more comfort. If it would have had a better point it would feel natural to alternate thrusts and strikes in bridging short circular combinations when in this range. When I compare it to resembling klewang I feel that its strength is in mid-range fighting with broken strikes. This is contrary to Pepperskull's and Jose's ideas but they do not have the advantage like me to try it out live, feel the balance etc. Probably you would change your mind about this if you actually had the blade in your hands.
I don't understand why it would hinder the second hand?
The only style of fighting that doesn't feel good with this protrusion is the chopping, jerking motion used in the Sundanese sugarcane fighting that Uncle Bill teaches (in case any of you have seen his characteristic stick fighting?).
Fearn, I don't get this idea of missing fingers? Unless you miss your index finger and use it as a guard. It's not very balanced or comfortable in only a pinch grip (thumb + index finger). There are no signs of deep cuts or scars on the hook or blade. Based on the tip I don't think that it was supposed to only be used as a tool, but I don't have much farming experience...
Interesting idea with the siku-siku parry function, Maurice. But you really have to have extremely small hands to be able to grip it behind the protrusion. Also it is not balanced when holding it in that grip.

Michael

CharlesS · 12th July 2011, 04:29 PM

Fascinating innovation...in a way I am surprised we don't see more of this.

A.alnakkas · 12th July 2011, 04:42 PM

I really dont see how the hook is combat efficient. If its for use maybe as machete then yes it will be comfy. But for combat? am not so sure since it wont add the protection of a crossguard and placing finger over it is dangerous.

Otherwise, it sure looks attractive!

fearn · 12th July 2011, 05:24 PM

Thanks Michael,

Good idea shot down, oh well. I'd guessed that it might work better in a pinch grip, or for someone missing part of their index finger. If it's not comfortable when held that way, then it's not.

F

ThePepperSkull · 12th July 2011, 06:23 PM

Thanks for the input, Michael.

I agree somewhat with you. Wrist movement should not be hindered, my intention was to articulate that FMA movements with this blade would hurt the index/middle finger some. Of course, I do not have this to handle so I defer to your judgement on this. Either way, I really like the look of this klewang. Very interesting!

Also, on second thought, this feature reminds me of a Subhilt bowie. The subhilt's secondary guard feature reminds me of the unique finger protrusion of this blade. I know that on a subhilt bowie, it helps with edge alignment in slashing in addition to hindering slippage from the hand -- Do you feel that this would be the same on your klewang,Michael?

11th July 2011, 03:33 PM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Neat piece! A couple of observations: The first is that this blade may have been made for someone who was missing some fingers or parts of fingers. It would make it easier to retain the blade (a good thing), and make it easier to swing around the index finger or whatever was left of it. The second is that if the blade has any scarring, it would tell us what it was used for. Marks from agricultural work look a bit different than parries on blades. Similarly, there may be scars on that hook that will elucidate what it was used for. Best, F

11th July 2011, 05:57 PM	#2
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	Maybe this "fingerhook" isn't a fingerhook at all?? It could be some kind of hook to prevent that an attack with an opponents blade (parried with the edge of Michael's weapon) ends up in the fingerzone whoever held Michael's sword....(like the protrusions of a "sai" or "sikoe-sikoe", but than smaller)... I wouldn't hold my finger above this hook when being in a bladefight. My fingers would be behind this protrusion, and I would try to parry all attacks with the edge of the blade.... But on the image I can't see if there is enough space to hold the handle behind this hook with the whole hand... Maurice

11th July 2011, 09:43 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks all for your comments. It doesn't seem like there is another one like it in other regions based on the answers? Here are my comments on your feedback and ideas: For me - with a blade training in Visayan FMA (Pekiti-Tirsia), Sundanese and Maduranese IMA (Kuntao Silat de Thouars) - it doesn't restrict my wrist movements at all. When I do long range striking and twirling movements (FMA) I just have a regular grip (not really using the advantage of the finger rest). When doing broken strikes without thinking about it I just positioned my thumb along the back of the blade for more comfort. If it would have had a better point it would feel natural to alternate thrusts and strikes in bridging short circular combinations when in this range. When I compare it to resembling klewang I feel that its strength is in mid-range fighting with broken strikes. This is contrary to Pepperskull's and Jose's ideas but they do not have the advantage like me to try it out live, feel the balance etc. Probably you would change your mind about this if you actually had the blade in your hands. I don't understand why it would hinder the second hand? The only style of fighting that doesn't feel good with this protrusion is the chopping, jerking motion used in the Sundanese sugarcane fighting that Uncle Bill teaches (in case any of you have seen his characteristic stick fighting?). Fearn, I don't get this idea of missing fingers? Unless you miss your index finger and use it as a guard. It's not very balanced or comfortable in only a pinch grip (thumb + index finger). There are no signs of deep cuts or scars on the hook or blade. Based on the tip I don't think that it was supposed to only be used as a tool, but I don't have much farming experience... Interesting idea with the siku-siku parry function, Maurice. But you really have to have extremely small hands to be able to grip it behind the protrusion. Also it is not balanced when holding it in that grip. Michael

12th July 2011, 04:29 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Fascinating innovation...in a way I am surprised we don't see more of this.

12th July 2011, 04:42 PM	#5
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	I really dont see how the hook is combat efficient. If its for use maybe as machete then yes it will be comfy. But for combat? am not so sure since it wont add the protection of a crossguard and placing finger over it is dangerous. Otherwise, it sure looks attractive!

12th July 2011, 05:24 PM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Thanks Michael, Good idea shot down, oh well. I'd guessed that it might work better in a pinch grip, or for someone missing part of their index finger. If it's not comfortable when held that way, then it's not. F

12th July 2011, 06:23 PM	#7
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Thanks for the input, Michael. I agree somewhat with you. Wrist movement should not be hindered, my intention was to articulate that FMA movements with this blade would hurt the index/middle finger some. Of course, I do not have this to handle so I defer to your judgement on this. Either way, I really like the look of this klewang. Very interesting! Also, on second thought, this feature reminds me of a Subhilt bowie. The subhilt's secondary guard feature reminds me of the unique finger protrusion of this blade. I know that on a subhilt bowie, it helps with edge alignment in slashing in addition to hindering slippage from the hand -- Do you feel that this would be the same on your klewang,Michael?