Shamshir, (number 2) translation and comments please

[A.alnakkas]

Hello David,

I dont think any of the cartouches say "Mohammed is the prophet of God" the circular top cartouche is a makers name "amal Mohammed ****** ****" I cant read the last 2 words because Iphone zoom is not good enough. I havr much to reply to, including a discussion between me and Dom's wife (say hi to her, Dom, will get a reply soon enough. Also tell her "elkalam el akheer leek ya khalti") but I agree the bottom cartouches are persian but I think they are poems.

Am really thinking of studying turkish and persian now :-)

[katana]

Thank you Alnakkas,
a friend's wife in Morroco kindly tried to translate, it seems she may be mistaken

Two things my friend...one, hurry up and get a PC and secondly the quicker you study Turkish and Persian, the better

Kind Regards David

[Dom]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

including a discussion between me and Dom's wife (say hi to her, Dom, will get a reply soon enough. Also tell her "elkalam el akheer leek ya khalti") but I agree the bottom cartouches are Persian but I think they are poems.

Hé .. hé ... hé
not bad my Dear Brother ... we got hard time to translate the meaning of the Arabic cartouche
here what we conclude
in the circle cartouche
- AMAL MOHAMED either MADE BY MOHAMED
upper, it's just the transcription of sounds, without any idea of the meaning
- TAKALEK definitely, its not in Arabic
- *KHA*DAR definitely, its not in Arabic, and *, because the sound could be "DHA" , or "DA" ??

now, the cartouche n°1,
it's in Arabic, the problem has been the translation
as far as it's religious purpose, the "average" it's not acceptable
translation, must be sharply the meaning, and the spirit
YA KADI EL HAGAT either "YOU",(under meaning, God) WHO HELP THE ONES WHO ASK FOR(sentence incomplete)

in the n°2 it's possible to read (more or less) "YA KADI" with an other spelling, also, we guess that Arabic sentence has been translated in Farci
the matter still yet pending, our opinion it's not firm it's a suggestion, no more

à +

Dom

[katana]

Dom,
thank you both (you and your wife) for the translation, very much appreciated.

Kind Regards David

[tom hyle]

the grip strikes me as a replacement.
It is clunky.
It may be poorly fit (it may have shrunk to leave a gap, but the abrupt depth of the slot the lagnet is in is also suspect)
But most tellingly it does not go into the handguard or even underneath the upper lagnet. These crossguards are usually also ferules, and this along with the upper lagnet serving as a clamp by going over the grip, eliminates the need for a rivet near the blade shoulders, which rivet's hole would be a weak point. This is where machetes break, for instance, and old N American butchers' cleavers and similar tools often have a similar feature whereby a ferule eliminates a rivet close to the juncture of blade and handle.
I had a kard with a poorly fitted black horn grip. My thought was water buffaloe.

[katana]

Hi Tom,
the slabs are higher than the langets.....the langets are very 'low' in comparision to the other shamshirs....will try and confirm /disprove the possibillity of the slabs being rhino.

Kind Regards David

[katana]

Manouchehr on SFI has kindly translated the 2 lower catouches, his interpretation is that cartouche 2 (middle) is "Ya Qathi al hajat (Oh, the fulfiller of wishes)" .The lower is "Ya Kafi al Muhemmat (Oh, the realizer of magnificent deeds)".

He agrees that the upper is not very clear but has also said like Dom that Amale (the work of) and Mohammed are more easily readable But, has suggested that there is seyf and possibly mesri there as well.

Regards David

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Tom,
the slabs are higher than the langets.....the langets are very 'low' in comparision to the other shamshirs....will try and confirm /disprove the possibillity of the slabs being rhino.

Kind Regards David

Agree with Tom. The grips are later replacements. they're made of horn, not rhino.

[A.alnakkas]

I seen such rehilting before. One on a persian shamshir and 2 on european solingen blades but all were wood except for the persian, it was some time of horn.

[katana]

Originally Posted by ALEX

Agree with Tom. The grips are later replacements. they're made of horn, not rhino.

Hi Tom and Alex,
you are correct....originally I thought I saw some translucence 'peering' through the grime on the slabs....indicating the 'possibility' of Rhino. I have cleaned them up ....definately horn....water buffalo a strong possibility.

Regards David