Islamic Crossbow?

Rivkin · 20th July 2005, 11:27 PM

Ok, here are two books that should mention islamic crossbows:
Boas, Adrian J. (1999). Crusader Archeology. New York: Routledge.
Burke, Edmund. (1957). The History of Archery. New York: William Morrow and Company.

B.I · 21st July 2005, 12:09 AM

thank you krill.
i will chase these books down. is this from memory or do they definately mention the crossbow. a bow pulled by the foot is enough for me but it must be pre 1500.
jens,
i just bumbled across this image from a moghul painting circa 1570. too late for my needs but interesting all the same.

Rather · 21st July 2005, 10:45 AM

As far as I remember, the crossbow was a weapon typically used by townspeople or on ships. It was much less effective in open ground battle, as the firing rate is much slower (5 to 6 times) compared to a bow. Furthermore, it can’t be used by cavalry, due to the difficult loading procedure. So, if your are looking for such a weapon in the Islamic armies, I suggest to look into the Naval warfare or check areas, where towns were under the thread of siege. Good luck!

Jens Nordlunde · 21st July 2005, 01:48 PM

Sorry I must have seen the crossbow in a book other than in my own. I have however found something else in Elgood’s Hindu Arms and Ritual.

Page 51. ‘Kautilya’s text as it has reached us with its insertions of identerminate date describes stone-throwing machines and we know from Muslim sources of manjaniqs, maghribis, arradahs and gigant crossbows called charkhs which were used in siege operations (see Toy, Sidney: The Strongholds of India. London 1957)’. And at the bottom of the page. ‘Ferishta is probably reliable when he reports that 5000 Hindus were slain when Muslim cannon fired ‘bags of copper miney’ at point-blank range at the advancing Hindu army during the battle of Talikota in 1565. He also refers to the Hindu use of ‘vast flights of rockets’. Probably rocket throwers, Takhsh-andaz, were carried into battle in howdahs together with grenade throwers, r’ad-andaz, in the army of Sultan Mahmud when he fought Timur at Delhi in 1398, but takhsh can mean a crossbow or an arrow.

See also the Glossary page 249 and 257.

Rivkin · 22nd July 2005, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.I

thank you krill.
i will chase these books down. is this from memory or do they definately mention the crossbow. a bow pulled by the foot is enough for me but it must be pre 1500.
jens,
i just bumbled across this image from a moghul painting circa 1570. too late for my needs but interesting all the same.

It's from memory, but "The History of Archery" I think certainly mentions the development of islamic crossbow (here my memory becomes vague - was it turks or persian who introduced it). As strange as it sounds they used it against very heavily armored enemies. As far as I remember old turkish shooting style (khazars etc.) very often required archers to dismount even when shooting with bows. Concerning ships, arabs, mamluks and early turks were not very profficient of famous for using them. Navy service was too often dispised and was not considered a "mainstream" career, therefore I (well I'm way too ignorant) don't know of a single famous "mamluk navy" manual.

21st July 2005, 12:09 AM	#2
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	thank you krill. i will chase these books down. is this from memory or do they definately mention the crossbow. a bow pulled by the foot is enough for me but it must be pre 1500. jens, i just bumbled across this image from a moghul painting circa 1570. too late for my needs but interesting all the same. Attached Images

20th July 2005, 11:27 PM	#1
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Ok, here are two books that should mention islamic crossbows: Boas, Adrian J. (1999). Crusader Archeology. New York: Routledge. Burke, Edmund. (1957). The History of Archery. New York: William Morrow and Company.

21st July 2005, 10:45 AM	#3
Rather Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 72	As far as I remember, the crossbow was a weapon typically used by townspeople or on ships. It was much less effective in open ground battle, as the firing rate is much slower (5 to 6 times) compared to a bow. Furthermore, it can’t be used by cavalry, due to the difficult loading procedure. So, if your are looking for such a weapon in the Islamic armies, I suggest to look into the Naval warfare or check areas, where towns were under the thread of siege. Good luck!

21st July 2005, 01:48 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Sorry I must have seen the crossbow in a book other than in my own. I have however found something else in Elgood’s Hindu Arms and Ritual. Page 51. ‘Kautilya’s text as it has reached us with its insertions of identerminate date describes stone-throwing machines and we know from Muslim sources of manjaniqs, maghribis, arradahs and gigant crossbows called charkhs which were used in siege operations (see Toy, Sidney: The Strongholds of India. London 1957)’. And at the bottom of the page. ‘Ferishta is probably reliable when he reports that 5000 Hindus were slain when Muslim cannon fired ‘bags of copper miney’ at point-blank range at the advancing Hindu army during the battle of Talikota in 1565. He also refers to the Hindu use of ‘vast flights of rockets’. Probably rocket throwers, Takhsh-andaz, were carried into battle in howdahs together with grenade throwers, r’ad-andaz, in the army of Sultan Mahmud when he fought Timur at Delhi in 1398, but takhsh can mean a crossbow or an arrow. See also the Glossary page 249 and 257.