Little SEA knife for ID

Sajen · 2nd July 2011, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

I don't think Gene's "fruit knife" is a siraui based on the hilt, size and scabbard.
Here is a small Javanese female knife of about the same size as a comparison.

Michael

Hello Michael,

what let you be sure that your knife is from Java? I am in agreement with you that there seem to be two types of knifes with a similar shape of the blade. Look here for example: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=siraui
Maybe a indonesian member can enlighten us?

Regards,

Detlef

VVV · 2nd July 2011, 05:22 PM

Detlef,

I got mine as a bonus gift when I bought a couple of keris. He told me that it was a female knife from his wife's hometown in Java. The only thing that resembles a siraui on the knife above is IMHO the blade form. But all siraui I have seen has had other hilts, scabbards and been larger in size. This one looks more like a rice harvesting knife.
Enclosed are two reference pictures of the two typical versions of siraui, which both are much larger in size and more of a weapon.
I think that Willem is correct in the old thread that the knife that was posted isn't a siraui at all. Maybe that's the reason for the confusion?

Michael

Sajen · 2nd July 2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Detlef,

I got mine as a bonus gift when I bought a couple of keris. He told me that it was a female knife from his wife's hometown in Java. The only thing that resembles a siraui on the knife above is IMHO the blade form. But all siraui I have seen has had other hilts, scabbards and been larger in size. This one looks more like a rice harvesting knife.
Enclosed are two reference pictures of the two typical versions of siraui, which both are much larger in size and more of a weapon.
I think that Willem is correct in the old thread that the knife that was posted isn't a siraui at all. Maybe that's the reason for the confusion?

Michael

Michael,

good possible. Rice harvesting knifes in Indonesia look different but I think that my guess that these knifes are used as utility knifes seems in my eyes nearby. Do you ever have recognized the affinity with the Bagobo sangi? And I have bought recently a bigger one which look also not like a weapon. Later I will post pictures from this one. Here first the picture of my small one. the handle is very similar like the one from Gene but the scabbard is more like the "real" old Siraui sheaths.

Regards,

Detlef

VVV · 2nd July 2011, 10:18 PM

Detlef,

Yours for sure looks more like related to the siraui (variation #1) than Gene's, both scabbard and in a way the handle.
On it resembling a rice knife I was more thinking about the old ceremonial ones, like those used for cutting for the "rice spirit" (semangat padi), than for "regular" harvesting (enclosed is an example from Sumbawa).
But of course you are correct that it is a utility knife.
I look forward to see your latest find.

Michael

A. G. Maisey · 2nd July 2011, 11:31 PM

All across the Indonesian Archipelago every region, and probably every village within every region has its own little work knives that more often than not have their own individual names. They vary in minute detail, as well as major detail, and those names can change simply by going from one village to the next.

I don't know what the correct name for the knife pictured is, because I don't know where it came from, and in any case, I've probably never been there. If I had to name this one I'd just look in one of the accepted references and name it as :- " a thingamejig from Wherever, according to Whoever".

I think a few of you may know of my love for the Name Game.

Anyway. Rice knives.

Pictured here is what is now used for harvesting rice in south central Bali, its an arit. Just like a normal sickle or reaping hook.

The peculiar little wooden thing with the narrow rusty blade is an ani-ani. This is the traditional ritual rice harvesting knife. It is hidden in the palm of the hand, so as not to frighten the spirit of the rice. A traditional farmer even today will have his wife cut the first few stalks before making the harvest. The one pictured is a Javanese ani-ani.

The rather refined knife with the ebony hilt and scabbard is a very good quality modern Balinese pemutik. A knife used for general work, especially in preparation of offerings and in ritual. Note the chisel grind.

I've got a number of other small Indonesian knives around too, including a few sirauis and similar, but right at the moment I can't put my hand on them, if I can find them this afternoon, I'll post pics of them too.

VVV · 3rd July 2011, 10:59 AM

Thanks Alan for joining this discussion.
Maybe it has drifted away a bit from the original post but I find it very interesting anyway. I do collect arit as well but not the "ani-ani" variations found all over too. In a away I try to focus on weapons even if some of them originally and foremost were utility knives, like the arit. Within the family of rice harvesting knives we should also mention the korambit of Sumatra, Malaysia and the Philippines.

Michael

Sajen · 3rd July 2011, 05:03 PM

Here my other knife in form as a siraui. But I have get doubts that it is one. The form of the blade as well the sheath is matching but the overall apearance is rough and let me think that it is a utility knife. There is an old label in front of the scabbard where is written "soemba". Is the meaning Sumba? I just don't know. It is a heavy item, out from sheath it is nearly 34 cm long, the handle from black horn. Any suggestions?

Regards,

Detlef

2nd July 2011, 05:22 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Detlef, I got mine as a bonus gift when I bought a couple of keris. He told me that it was a female knife from his wife's hometown in Java. The only thing that resembles a siraui on the knife above is IMHO the blade form. But all siraui I have seen has had other hilts, scabbards and been larger in size. This one looks more like a rice harvesting knife. Enclosed are two reference pictures of the two typical versions of siraui, which both are much larger in size and more of a weapon. I think that Willem is correct in the old thread that the knife that was posted isn't a siraui at all. Maybe that's the reason for the confusion? Michael Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 2nd July 2011 at 05:50 PM. Reason: commented to linked thread too and found pics of variation 2 of the siraui

2nd July 2011, 10:18 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Detlef, Yours for sure looks more like related to the siraui (variation #1) than Gene's, both scabbard and in a way the handle. On it resembling a rice knife I was more thinking about the old ceremonial ones, like those used for cutting for the "rice spirit" (semangat padi), than for "regular" harvesting (enclosed is an example from Sumbawa). But of course you are correct that it is a utility knife. I look forward to see your latest find. Michael Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 2nd July 2011 at 10:33 PM. Reason: added reference picture

2nd July 2011, 11:31 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	All across the Indonesian Archipelago every region, and probably every village within every region has its own little work knives that more often than not have their own individual names. They vary in minute detail, as well as major detail, and those names can change simply by going from one village to the next. I don't know what the correct name for the knife pictured is, because I don't know where it came from, and in any case, I've probably never been there. If I had to name this one I'd just look in one of the accepted references and name it as :- " a thingamejig from Wherever, according to Whoever". I think a few of you may know of my love for the Name Game. Anyway. Rice knives. Pictured here is what is now used for harvesting rice in south central Bali, its an arit. Just like a normal sickle or reaping hook. The peculiar little wooden thing with the narrow rusty blade is an ani-ani. This is the traditional ritual rice harvesting knife. It is hidden in the palm of the hand, so as not to frighten the spirit of the rice. A traditional farmer even today will have his wife cut the first few stalks before making the harvest. The one pictured is a Javanese ani-ani. The rather refined knife with the ebony hilt and scabbard is a very good quality modern Balinese pemutik. A knife used for general work, especially in preparation of offerings and in ritual. Note the chisel grind. I've got a number of other small Indonesian knives around too, including a few sirauis and similar, but right at the moment I can't put my hand on them, if I can find them this afternoon, I'll post pics of them too. Attached Images

3rd July 2011, 10:59 AM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Alan for joining this discussion. Maybe it has drifted away a bit from the original post but I find it very interesting anyway. I do collect arit as well but not the "ani-ani" variations found all over too. In a away I try to focus on weapons even if some of them originally and foremost were utility knives, like the arit. Within the family of rice harvesting knives we should also mention the korambit of Sumatra, Malaysia and the Philippines. Michael Attached Images

3rd July 2011, 05:03 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	Here my other knife in form as a siraui. But I have get doubts that it is one. The form of the blade as well the sheath is matching but the overall apearance is rough and let me think that it is a utility knife. There is an old label in front of the scabbard where is written "soemba". Is the meaning Sumba? I just don't know. It is a heavy item, out from sheath it is nearly 34 cm long, the handle from black horn. Any suggestions? Regards, Detlef Attached Images