Old (?) Madurese keris/Pamor Ron Gendhuru Winengku

GIO · 24th June 2011, 07:05 PM

I think the blade is in too good conditions to be considered old, moreover the nickel alloy is too bright. The uncommon bulge on the hilt could be due to the wish of the manufacturer to employ all the material available without discarding one part.
In my opinion the ensemble is very nice, the pamor is rather well controlled, and also the scabbard is not to throw away

Gustav · 24th June 2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

I think the blade is in too good conditions to be considered old )

Apropos the condition - If this blade would be old, I don't think it could be older then 1850, and for this age it is rather worn.

Marcokeris · 24th June 2011, 10:07 PM

Pamor seems an opposite Ron Genduru (the same of a negative photo)

Sajen · 25th June 2011, 01:41 PM

Yes, so far you can see it on the pictures seems the blade "natural worn" and seems to have age. Pamor ron kendhuru, agree with Marco.

Regards,

Detlef

David · 25th June 2011, 03:50 PM

To me this "feels" like a nice contemporary blade that has been artificially aged. I realize that a "feeling" or instinct is not the most convincing method in an academic setting, but then again, the Warung is a coffeehouse after all.

If i held it in my hand i might get a different feeling from it. If i saw different photos it's possible i might have another opinion. This game of making judgements based upon digital images on a screen is always going to be a tricky one.
Even you seem to question the age at least somewhat or you wouldn't have asked for opinions on that aspect, though it is, of course, obvious that you would like the blade to have some real age. Who wouldn't?
The one thing i would do is consider both the source and the price paid. We do most often get what we pay for with most things. You would certainly expect to pay a pretty penny for a 19th century version of this pamor that is this well executed. A contemporary version, not nearly as much. Of course those sleeper deals do still exist. Did you buy this from a dealer or was it something found at a flea market of perhaps sitting in some old lady's attic for years? If it came from a dealer what did they tell you on age? How trustworthy are they? and even if they are trustworthy in your eyes even honest dealers can themselves be mislead and pass on incorrect info.

Gustav · 26th June 2011, 11:22 AM

David, thank you very much for your comment, you could be wright about it.

I calculated of course myself the possibility the blade could be new, actually about 75%. As Alan wrote, old blades with an elaborate pamor are very, very rare. I grumbled very long, if I could take this risk. I decided to do it, becouse I wanted to see and to study such pamor "live".

Here the somewhat better pictures I managed to take, for reference.

Sajen · 26th June 2011, 02:39 PM

I understand now better!

When the much better pictures don't lying I would hope maybe as well to get a very good old blade.

Regards,

Detlef

26th June 2011, 11:22 AM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	David, thank you very much for your comment, you could be wright about it. I calculated of course myself the possibility the blade could be new, actually about 75%. As Alan wrote, old blades with an elaborate pamor are very, very rare. I grumbled very long, if I could take this risk. I decided to do it, becouse I wanted to see and to study such pamor "live". Here the somewhat better pictures I managed to take, for reference. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 26th June 2011 at 01:06 PM. Reason: pictures added

24th June 2011, 07:05 PM	#1
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 328	I think the blade is in too good conditions to be considered old, moreover the nickel alloy is too bright. The uncommon bulge on the hilt could be due to the wish of the manufacturer to employ all the material available without discarding one part. In my opinion the ensemble is very nice, the pamor is rather well controlled, and also the scabbard is not to throw away

24th June 2011, 10:07 PM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Pamor seems an opposite Ron Genduru (the same of a negative photo)

25th June 2011, 01:41 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Yes, so far you can see it on the pictures seems the blade "natural worn" and seems to have age. Pamor ron kendhuru, agree with Marco. Regards, Detlef

25th June 2011, 03:50 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	To me this "feels" like a nice contemporary blade that has been artificially aged. I realize that a "feeling" or instinct is not the most convincing method in an academic setting, but then again, the Warung is a coffeehouse after all. If i held it in my hand i might get a different feeling from it. If i saw different photos it's possible i might have another opinion. This game of making judgements based upon digital images on a screen is always going to be a tricky one. Even you seem to question the age at least somewhat or you wouldn't have asked for opinions on that aspect, though it is, of course, obvious that you would like the blade to have some real age. Who wouldn't? The one thing i would do is consider both the source and the price paid. We do most often get what we pay for with most things. You would certainly expect to pay a pretty penny for a 19th century version of this pamor that is this well executed. A contemporary version, not nearly as much. Of course those sleeper deals do still exist. Did you buy this from a dealer or was it something found at a flea market of perhaps sitting in some old lady's attic for years? If it came from a dealer what did they tell you on age? How trustworthy are they? and even if they are trustworthy in your eyes even honest dealers can themselves be mislead and pass on incorrect info.

26th June 2011, 02:39 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	I understand now better! When the much better pictures don't lying I would hope maybe as well to get a very good old blade. Regards, Detlef