a very lukky kris

Sajen · 19th June 2011, 11:38 PM

Hello Thilo,

very nice lamination and a good kris, this was a very good catch.

Regards,

Detlef

mrwizard · 20th June 2011, 11:22 PM

Hello Tom,
Both stick have similar dimensions: 4mm wide, 2mm high, 95mm long, rectangular cross-section. They are made of wood. The binding looks like hemp and it is/was covered with tar/pitch of some sort. It appears like the sticks were also painted with pitch.

I'm not so sure about the edge alignment theory. While i have no idea how moro martial art looked/looks like, i personally would hold the kris with my thumb resting on the broad side of the blade base for better control. This would provide more than enough edge alignment regardless of hilt geometry

Best Regards,
Thilo

mrwizard · 20th June 2011, 11:24 PM

Hello Detlef,

Thanks, i was not so sure when i bought it.

CharlesS · 21st June 2011, 06:31 PM

Another great example of the seemingly endless array of Moro hilt and pommel combinations.

Thanks for sharing. Nice pick up!

tom hyle · 21st June 2011, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrwizard

I'm not so sure about the edge alignment theory. While i have no idea how moro martial art looked/looks like, i personally would hold the kris with my thumb resting on the broad side of the blade base for better control. This would provide more than enough edge alignment regardless of hilt geometry

Best Regards,
Thilo

hmm good point, but I still think it would help the fingers to properly align the power. Indonesian kris are traditionally indexed with the fingers on the blade during use. I'm not sure about kris sundang, and I had been curious. Maybe someone can tell us more about this? Visayan martial arts tend to use a thumb-pushing-on-the-back-edge style of grip for swords, but that might well be a Spainish influence on that Catholic culture.

Rick · 21st June 2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrwizard

Hello Tom,
Both stick have similar dimensions: 4mm wide, 2mm high, 95mm long, rectangular cross-section. They are made of wood. The binding looks like hemp and it is/was covered with tar/pitch of some sort. It appears like the sticks were also painted with pitch.

I'm not so sure about the edge alignment theory. While i have no idea how moro martial art looked/looks like, i personally would hold the kris with my thumb resting on the broad side of the blade base for better control. This would provide more than enough edge alignment regardless of hilt geometry

Best Regards,
Thilo

That silver handle alone would be mighty slippery when wet .
The sticks and bindings provide a solid non slip grip .
Handy thing in a wet sword .

Maurice · 22nd June 2011, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

That silver handle alone would be mighty slippery when wet .
The sticks and bindings provide a solid non slip grip .
Handy thing in a wet sword .

This seems very unlikely to me.
Moro krisses were made to be ready anytime to fight and kill (what was also necessary as history proofs).
So all the others would be slippery when wet, but this one wouldn't because of the sticks...I think it has another purpose, though I don't know what..

tom hyle · 23rd June 2011, 02:33 PM

The bindings certainly provide grippiness, and they often seem to be an after-market option; sometimes even being added over metal ferules, often occurring alongside/between them. An option some like and others don't does not seem unlikely; it's actually a matter of debate with modern craftsmen and modern sword practitioners; more slidiness or more grippiness? It can be very much a matter of taste. So I'd say that Rick is onto something; apart from its decorative beauty, and its use instead of sheet metal ferules at times by the poor, traditional Moro hilt-wrapping with wire and rattan certainly provides the using value of improved grippiness.
What I wonder is, are the sticks part of a pattern found artistically pleasing alone, or do they impact the grip in a specific way. The Visayan handle is of flattened octagon section. Its front and back flats are notably narrower than the other flats. Sometimes they are even the same, but more often the back flat is wider, often of similar width to the spine of the sword. So this is partly what I am questing around here. Also though, Indonesian blades often have octagonal handles with flat front and back edges; probing; considering.....

Rick · 23rd June 2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

This seems very unlikely to me.
Moro krisses were made to be ready anytime to fight and kill (what was also necessary as history proofs).
So all the others would be slippery when wet, but this one wouldn't because of the sticks...I think it has another purpose, though I don't know what..

I've got my doubts about it being a repair of some sort ...

Maurice · 23rd June 2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I've got my doubts about it being a repair of some sort ...

Yes Rick, I agree it doesn't look like a repair neither..

mrwizard · 23rd June 2011, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Yes Rick, I agree it doesn't look like a repair neither..

It is definitely no repair. The sticks are too small to stabilize a broken hilt or similar damage. If they were broader they could probably serve as some kind of shock absorber.
Aesthetically they follow the asang-asang, so i still think they are mostly decoration or some kind of talisman.

19th June 2011, 11:38 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,409	Hello Thilo, very nice lamination and a good kris, this was a very good catch. Regards, Detlef

20th June 2011, 11:22 PM	#2
mrwizard Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 102	Hello Tom, Both stick have similar dimensions: 4mm wide, 2mm high, 95mm long, rectangular cross-section. They are made of wood. The binding looks like hemp and it is/was covered with tar/pitch of some sort. It appears like the sticks were also painted with pitch. I'm not so sure about the edge alignment theory. While i have no idea how moro martial art looked/looks like, i personally would hold the kris with my thumb resting on the broad side of the blade base for better control. This would provide more than enough edge alignment regardless of hilt geometry Best Regards, Thilo

20th June 2011, 11:24 PM	#3
mrwizard Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 102	Hello Detlef, Thanks, i was not so sure when i bought it.

21st June 2011, 06:31 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Another great example of the seemingly endless array of Moro hilt and pommel combinations. Thanks for sharing. Nice pick up!

23rd June 2011, 02:33 PM	#8
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The bindings certainly provide grippiness, and they often seem to be an after-market option; sometimes even being added over metal ferules, often occurring alongside/between them. An option some like and others don't does not seem unlikely; it's actually a matter of debate with modern craftsmen and modern sword practitioners; more slidiness or more grippiness? It can be very much a matter of taste. So I'd say that Rick is onto something; apart from its decorative beauty, and its use instead of sheet metal ferules at times by the poor, traditional Moro hilt-wrapping with wire and rattan certainly provides the using value of improved grippiness. What I wonder is, are the sticks part of a pattern found artistically pleasing alone, or do they impact the grip in a specific way. The Visayan handle is of flattened octagon section. Its front and back flats are notably narrower than the other flats. Sometimes they are even the same, but more often the back flat is wider, often of similar width to the spine of the sword. So this is partly what I am questing around here. Also though, Indonesian blades often have octagonal handles with flat front and back edges; probing; considering.....