New member, need help identifying sword

brabbit · 14th July 2005, 11:48 PM

Can anyone please help me to indentify this sword. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Rivkin · 15th July 2005, 12:08 AM

Wow. I know there are bigger specialists here, but to me the sword looks like a rare Omani kattara with a sabre blade, the scabbard however is more like a sudanese one... I would vote for sudanese origins, but it's just the first guess, I know I will be corrected by real collectors

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Jim McDougall · 15th July 2005, 03:44 AM

Kirill,
Very astutely observed!! Actually the Sudanese attribution is essentially correct as this is a Manding sabre from the far western Sudan. These were typically mounted with French sabre blades from occupational forces in Saharan regions. Your observation on the similarity to the Omani kattara is well placed as well as these seem to be associated to these in the cylindrical, guardless hilt.
The leaf shaped scabbard end reflects of course influence from the kaskaras of the eastern Sudan.
Best regards,
Jim

Lew · 15th July 2005, 03:54 AM

Hi Brabbit

Welcome to the forum!

I must agree with Jim definately a Manding sword and a nice one to boot. Here is one I own. Here is a link to it.
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002531.html

Rick · 15th July 2005, 03:59 AM

The blade of this sword seems to show many marks from the hammer ; something you wouldn't see on a European blade .
Perhaps native made ?

brabbit · 15th July 2005, 04:30 AM

Thanks for your help guys. I REALLY appreciate it. I've done hours of reseach on the net and at the library and came up with nothing. Here are some more detailed pics. I know there is a lot of history behind this sword, especially because of the engravings on the blade. The scabbard is very detailed as well. Any more information you can give me, such as the time period, what the symbols mean, etc?

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat015.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat009.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat002.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat037.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat035.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat039.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat038.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat034.jpg

brabbit · 16th July 2005, 09:27 PM

I've found some more of these types of swords and they do look similar however this one seems to be more detailed. It looks as if it may have been for royalty or the leader of a tribe? any ideas about the markings on the blade and the symbols dyed in the sheath? There's very limited info on this and you guys are the experts. I appreciate all the help thus far.

Rick · 16th July 2005, 10:03 PM

Doubtful that it is for "royalty" it is however a nicely executed older example that shows appropriate age wear .

Tim Simmons · 16th July 2005, 10:56 PM

This is not that old and has been well kept, It has a native made blade like yours, so to be fair yours would have belonged to a pretty ropey royal household

brabbit · 17th July 2005, 06:36 PM

Tim, yours is very nice as well. Thanks for the pic. Does yours have engravings in the blade too? What time frame is it from? and if you don't mind me asking, how much is it worth? Feel free to e-mail me off the forum if you'd like. Thanks again, Jason

Rick · 17th July 2005, 07:01 PM

Hi brabbit ,

I'd say it's worth whatever the highest bidder would pay for it .

African stuff tends to be somewhat undervalued in the marketplace today .

I'm sure you are aware from reading the posting rules that we don't appraise pieces here .

brabbit · 18th July 2005, 03:27 AM

I wasn't looking for an appraisle. I'm really just trying to find as much info about it as possible.

14th July 2005, 11:48 PM	#1
brabbit Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5	New member, need help identifying sword Can anyone please help me to indentify this sword. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

15th July 2005, 03:54 AM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Brabbit Welcome to the forum! I must agree with Jim definately a Manding sword and a nice one to boot. Here is one I own. Here is a link to it. http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002531.html Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 15th July 2005 at 04:07 AM.

15th July 2005, 04:30 AM	#6
brabbit Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5	Thanks Thanks for your help guys. I REALLY appreciate it. I've done hours of reseach on the net and at the library and came up with nothing. Here are some more detailed pics. I know there is a lot of history behind this sword, especially because of the engravings on the blade. The scabbard is very detailed as well. Any more information you can give me, such as the time period, what the symbols mean, etc? http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat015.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat009.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat002.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat037.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat035.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat039.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat038.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43...ter/pat034.jpg

16th July 2005, 09:27 PM	#7
brabbit Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5	Need more help! I've found some more of these types of swords and they do look similar however this one seems to be more detailed. It looks as if it may have been for royalty or the leader of a tribe? any ideas about the markings on the blade and the symbols dyed in the sheath? There's very limited info on this and you guys are the experts. I appreciate all the help thus far.

15th July 2005, 12:08 AM	#2
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Wow. I know there are bigger specialists here, but to me the sword looks like a rare Omani kattara with a sabre blade, the scabbard however is more like a sudanese one... I would vote for sudanese origins, but it's just the first guess, I know I will be corrected by real collectors .

15th July 2005, 03:44 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,512	Kirill, Very astutely observed!! Actually the Sudanese attribution is essentially correct as this is a Manding sabre from the far western Sudan. These were typically mounted with French sabre blades from occupational forces in Saharan regions. Your observation on the similarity to the Omani kattara is well placed as well as these seem to be associated to these in the cylindrical, guardless hilt. The leaf shaped scabbard end reflects of course influence from the kaskaras of the eastern Sudan. Best regards, Jim

15th July 2005, 03:59 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,348	The blade of this sword seems to show many marks from the hammer ; something you wouldn't see on a European blade . Perhaps native made ?

16th July 2005, 10:03 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,348	Doubtful that it is for "royalty" it is however a nicely executed older example that shows appropriate age wear .

16th July 2005, 10:56 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,880	This is not that old and has been well kept, It has a native made blade like yours, so to be fair yours would have belonged to a pretty ropey royal household

17th July 2005, 06:36 PM	#10
brabbit Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5	Tim, yours is very nice as well. Thanks for the pic. Does yours have engravings in the blade too? What time frame is it from? and if you don't mind me asking, how much is it worth? Feel free to e-mail me off the forum if you'd like. Thanks again, Jason

17th July 2005, 07:01 PM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,348	Hi brabbit , I'd say it's worth whatever the highest bidder would pay for it . African stuff tends to be somewhat undervalued in the marketplace today . I'm sure you are aware from reading the posting rules that we don't appraise pieces here .

18th July 2005, 03:27 AM	#12
brabbit Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5	I wasn't looking for an appraisle. I'm really just trying to find as much info about it as possible.