Seldom seen Kilic type

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by ALEX

Here is a provenanced example of yelman'ed shamshir dated to the early 19th C. I've seen a few similarly-shaped/yelman'ed shamshirs also dated to 19th C.
Here is an "official" description:

THE OTTOMAN SILVER-MOUNTED SHAMSHIR PRESENTED TO CAPTAIN COLIN MACKAY OF BIGHOUSE BY MOHAMMED ALI PASHA OF EGYPT IN 1807 FOLLOWING HIS COMMAND OF THE GRENADIER COMPANY OF THE 2ND BATTALION OF THE 78TH REGIMENT OF FOOT AT EL HAMET IN 1807 ...

Calling these blades Shamshir or Kilij is a matter of personal taste, and dating/naming them based on the presence of yelman alone... not that easy.

Indeed many terms in the arms world are a matter of taste , easy is to say sabre

I have seen many of these subtle yelman kilij dated from the ealry 1600s through to the early 1900s. One in particular carrying very good provenance from the early 1600s.

It is unfortunate that the provenance in the example presented only carries weight as so far as the date of gifting, not manufacture.

There are even similar looking blades dating to the second half of the 16th century that carry 19th century fittings......

[tom hyle]

More than anything else the blade style reminds me of 18th/early19th shah shish qa blades, (sha'sh'qa) particularly those associated to Afghanistan.
Consider that the usual kilich blade has two gently curved sections with an abrupt bend around about the middle and is wider than this, while the shamshir is a parabolic curve that gets more and more curved toward the tip. This blade has a relatively circular curve and the shape of the yelman reminds me of the Afghan swords I mentioned, as well.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

More than anything else the blade style reminds me of 18th/early19th shah shish qa blades, (sha'sh'qa) particularly those associated to Afghanistan.

Tom, I didn't see you sneak in here. Any visual reference to help describe this? I am unclear of the comparison you describe

Originally Posted by tom hyle

Consider that the usual kilich blade has two gently curved sections with an abrupt bend around about the middle and is wider than this,

Would you be describing the Pala? It sounds like it to me , got an image?

Originally Posted by tom hyle

while the shamshir is a parabolic curve that gets more and more curved toward the tip. This blade has a relatively circular curve and the shape of the yelman reminds me of the Afghan swords I mentioned, as well.

I'd love to see some camparative images.

Gav

[Nathaniel]

Wow, Gavin! Kilij are fantastic blades. Can't wait to see how the beauty of the blade comes out after Philip is finished with it...I'm sure it will really make the eyes pop!

[tom hyle]

Alas, the most I can do with this machine is type. watch movies, and spend money; I don't have a clue from posting pictures What a drag....

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

Alas, the most I can do with this machine is type. watch movies, and spend money; I don't have a clue from posting pictures What a drag....

What about cutting and pasting links?

Gav

[tom hyle]

nope

[Lew]

Originally Posted by freebooter

What about cutting and pasting links?

Gav

Gav

If Tom has pics they should be uploaded no hot links please.