Finally worth getting at 5am

[kahnjar1]

Having given my 2c worth above, WELCOME TO THE FORUM. That Islamic pistol looks magnificent, and well done with the restoration of the metal parts. By the looks of it, the woodwork is totally munted but IF it can be rebuilt with careful use of pieces of correct coloured wood and filler, then that IMHO would be preferable to a completely new stock.
Stuart

[Jim McDougall]

Welcome Dooly!
Nicely done on photos and showing the progression of your restoration work, which is outstanding and thank you for giving these worn old weapons the chance they deserve to be properly preserved.

The dealer you observed was clearly 'working it!' and I'm glad you got this instead of him

The acid etched script on the barrel is Islamic calligraphy known as 'thuluth' and seen characteristically in the Sudan on weapons during the Mahdiyya period in the latter 19th century. This was also known in Ottoman regions in Egypt and others in degree, though it had been largely been superceded elsewhere in Islamic inscriptions of Qur'anic verse by the Naskhi script.

This appears to be a trade produced flintlock made in the English style and the pistol is mounted in a style which appears much in Balkan style with the sharply angled neck and butt. These were often produced for native consumption , and these type guns were entering Cairo centers, often cheaply made in Leige in the 1870s or so. Apparantly mostly muskets were coming in, but it would seem flintlock pistols did as well in some degree.
The thuluth etching on this barrel suggests the pistol may have been handled during Mahdiyya times (c. 1884-1898) but as these were not commonly used by these forces, it is possible this may have been a special case issue or award.
The absence of the ramrod suggests also Ottoman style in the gun, as with them their pistols' ramrods (suma) were carried on belts.

Probably some interesting history with this one, and quite possibly some intriguing potential as a weapon from Egypt or the Sudan end of the 19th century.

References:
"Firearms of the Islamic World" Robert Elgood, London, 1995, p.224

Other good references regarding the British military pistols;
"British Military Pistols" Robert E. Brooker, 1978

I hope you will be restoring the stock from illustrations of the original as these trade anomalies were by no means standard, and it would be good to see this one kept faithful to the original. The locks were simply copies of the British ones, which were often reused of course.
Your work on the weapon as shown to date is superb!!!

All the best,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

More thoughts:

Looking further at this pistol, I am more convinced of the associations to Ottoman style, and possibilities of Leige production for trade. Apparantly in Robert Elgood's "Arms of Greece,and Her Balkan Neignbors in the Ottoman Era" (London, 2009) , pistols with corresponding stock form are shown with an example noted from Brno (Czechoslakia) 19th c. While this was in Moravian regions part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire to cross influence into Ottoman regions in the Balkans was of course inevitable.

While trade grade weapons were being produced in various regions for the Ottomans, it does seem that Leige, in Belgium was also competing. Elgood notes in footnotes on p.224 (#15) that Burckhardt ("Travels in Nubia", London, 1822) had described brisk trade in sword blades from Solingen being sold in Cairo, and that 50 years later (i.e.1870s) there were cheap percussion guns from Belgium being sold in Cairo and traded into the slave trade markets in Shendy. While these were usually muskets, and obviously percussion, it is a good indicator that Belgian trade weapons were being received in Cairo (under Ottoman suzerainty) earlier and probably the flintlock type weapons as well. Other references have noted trade weapons from Belgium being traded in Cairo to slave traders from Darfur and Wadi in these times.

It is worthy of note that the use of flintlock guns remained in favor in remote native regions and colonial spheres for a considerable time after the advent of the percussion lock, primarily because it was far easier to obtain flints than percussion caps, as is my understanding.

With these weapons moving southward with slave traders, it would not be surprising to see a pistol of trade quality receiving this thuluth decoration and being used by an individual of some significance in tribal standing in these times of the Mahdiyya.

As always, looking forward to hearing more on this from those with knowledge on these kinds of firearms, whom I know are out there!! . For further reference, the best reference on Balkan firearms is Robert Elgood's by far.

In any case, I hope what I have found is of interest thus far.

Best regards,
Jim

[dooly]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

More thoughts:

Looking further at this pistol, I am more convinced of the associations to Ottoman style, and possibilities of Leige production for trade. Apparantly in Robert Elgood's "Arms of Greece,and Her Balkan Neignbors in the Ottoman Era" (London, 2009) , pistols with corresponding stock form are shown with an example noted from Brno (Czechoslakia) 19th c. While this was in Moravian regions part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire to cross influence into Ottoman regions in the Balkans was of course inevitable.

While trade grade weapons were being produced in various regions for the Ottomans, it does seem that Leige, in Belgium was also competing. Elgood notes in footnotes on p.224 (#15) that Burckhardt ("Travels in Nubia", London, 1822) had described brisk trade in sword blades from Solingen being sold in Cairo, and that 50 years later (i.e.1870s) there were cheap percussion guns from Belgium being sold in Cairo and traded into the slave trade markets in Shendy. While these were usually muskets, and obviously percussion, it is a good indicator that Belgian trade weapons were being received in Cairo (under Ottoman suzerainty) earlier and probably the flintlock type weapons as well. Other references have noted trade weapons from Belgium being traded in Cairo to slave traders from Darfur and Wadi in these times.

It is worthy of note that the use of flintlock guns remained in favor in remote native regions and colonial spheres for a considerable time after the advent of the percussion lock, primarily because it was far easier to obtain flints than percussion caps, as is my understanding.

With these weapons moving southward with slave traders, it would not be surprising to see a pistol of trade quality receiving this thuluth decoration and being used by an individual of some significance in tribal standing in these times of the Mahdiyya.

As always, looking forward to hearing more on this from those with knowledge on these kinds of firearms, whom I know are out there!! . For further reference, the best reference on Balkan firearms is Robert Elgood's by far.

In any case, I hope what I have found is of interest thus far.

Best regards,
Jim

Brilliant just brilliant thanks for the hard work you have put in what great information .. and is showing what a history and sites this gun must of seen .. the information re the stock is just the pointers i needed for a sensitive restoration .. I poped into my local wood man today and could not find anything worthy today .. i have another avenue to go down tomorrow .. lets see what they have in

Ps .. I do a lot of Metal detecting hear in the UK and have lots of musket balls which would fit the gun so i may make a box and keep them all together .. also when detecting i have found some "of the period" musket flints and i could fit one to the gun when completed .. we also find Lead flint holders for them .. Question is what would they have used in the country the gun was used, Lead / Leather / felt ??

Pps .. I have also found some Neolithic Arrow heads and tools .. would people on this forum appreciate seeing photos of that type of stuff ?

thanks again