Klewang Sumatra

Gavin Nugent · 29th May 2011, 01:03 AM

Nothing wrong with falling in love with them, it is a good thing and nothing wrong with that. The study material offers a lot when in hand and there is little info to fall back on so exacting research might be considered ground breaking

I have always found them a pleasure to handle and view.

Gav

KuKulzA28 · 29th May 2011, 02:41 AM

Thanks Gav for the reassurance and enabling

Anyone know anything about the pedang, top of the 3? It has this fuller that goes all the way to the false edge. Usually they look like pedang-sabet like the 2nd one (sometimes with fullers), or they're heavier golok or klewang types, or the katana-like ones as seen 3rd down.

I never saw a blade like the one up top so, since it was a good deal, I snatched it up.

Rick · 29th May 2011, 03:59 PM

I never saw a pommel like the one at the bottom of the picture on one of these swords .

I'm guessing it is a found, natural shape that resembles the traditional form .
There could be some talismanic value to having one of these free form hilts .

I believe they are rare and highly prized in the world of keris .

KuKulzA28 · 29th May 2011, 04:39 PM

I too have never seen another one like it, where it is the shape of the typical pommel (Makara?) but without the carvings... so because of that and because it has my favorite Indonesian pedang blade shape (I call "Katana-tip"), I had to get it. Rick, would you mind explaining to me why the uncarved is so special? To me, it would seem like carved takes more work than uncarved, so if uncarved was better, wouldn't you see more of those??

Yea, novice questions

Rick · 29th May 2011, 04:49 PM

I can't explain, I can guess; these 'natural' forms that mimic hilt pommels and keris handles come from the 'natural' world not from the hand of man .

That makes them special .

KuKulzA28 · 29th May 2011, 08:36 PM

Perhaps, though the resemblance is too much - I think someone simply shaped buffalo horn into the look of the typical pommel and then did not proceed to make the traditional carvings, but I don't know for sure.

These blades were definitely big in Lombok from the little I've read, and apparently found in central/south Sumatra... I wonder what factors prompted their being readily adopted in Sumatra?? ...versus Borneo and Java which seem to have had their own endemic parangs and pedangs already well-established. I could be wrong about my assumptions however, I am pretty new to Indonesian weapons.

Sumatran weapons are the most fascinating to me, but there seems to be the least information on them... aside from the occasional Batak place, piso podang, or Acehnese collection...

Gavin Nugent · 29th May 2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I never saw a pommel like the one at the bottom of the picture on one of these swords .

I'm guessing it is a found, natural shape that resembles the traditional form .
There could be some talismanic value to having one of these free form hilts .

I believe they are rare and highly prized in the world of keris .

The hilt To me is a dead ringer for the Makara seen on the Sosun Patta I have, the others look to me in profile to be the cockatoo. I'd suggest the lower one shows more Hindu influence around these Islands. I'd also suggest they are carved this way....

Gav

KuKulzA28 · 1st June 2011, 07:12 PM

Hindu influence? What makes you say that?

I'm not yet very good at differentiating different stylistic differences that could be attributed to Islamic, Hindu, or local beliefs...

Gavin Nugent · 2nd June 2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

Hindu influence? What makes you say that?

I'm not yet very good at differentiating different stylistic differences that could be attributed to Islamic, Hindu, or local beliefs...

Vinny,

I note it because of the hilt shape referred to is to me that of the Makara;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makara_(Hindu_mythology)

See also the image attached.

This text is translated text from Wiki;

"Before the entry of Islam, the people who inhabit the island of Lombok in a row of belief animism , dynamism and Hindu"

I understand aspects of the old Hindu culture is still present in places and more so I would suggest in the age of these swords.

Gav

KuKulzA28 · 2nd June 2011, 03:35 PM

I see... I wonder why they chose Makara as a popular motif on swords, perhaps because of the fierceness of crocodiles... Did the coming and popularity of Islam start to change the Hindu and animist stylistic elements of the weapons? I've heard that Islamic beliefs forbid the carving of idols, animals, etc. on hilt - not sure if it's true.

The sword hilt you just provided an image for - is that a very reduced and stylized form of Makara?

29th May 2011, 01:03 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Nothing wrong with that!! Nothing wrong with falling in love with them, it is a good thing and nothing wrong with that. The study material offers a lot when in hand and there is little info to fall back on so exacting research might be considered ground breaking I have always found them a pleasure to handle and view. Gav

29th May 2011, 04:49 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Esoterica I can't explain, I can guess; these 'natural' forms that mimic hilt pommels and keris handles come from the 'natural' world not from the hand of man . That makes them special .

29th May 2011, 02:41 AM	#2
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Thanks Gav for the reassurance and enabling Anyone know anything about the pedang, top of the 3? It has this fuller that goes all the way to the false edge. Usually they look like pedang-sabet like the 2nd one (sometimes with fullers), or they're heavier golok or klewang types, or the katana-like ones as seen 3rd down. I never saw a blade like the one up top so, since it was a good deal, I snatched it up.

29th May 2011, 03:59 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	I never saw a pommel like the one at the bottom of the picture on one of these swords . I'm guessing it is a found, natural shape that resembles the traditional form . There could be some talismanic value to having one of these free form hilts . I believe they are rare and highly prized in the world of keris .

29th May 2011, 04:39 PM	#4
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I too have never seen another one like it, where it is the shape of the typical pommel (Makara?) but without the carvings... so because of that and because it has my favorite Indonesian pedang blade shape (I call "Katana-tip"), I had to get it. Rick, would you mind explaining to me why the uncarved is so special? To me, it would seem like carved takes more work than uncarved, so if uncarved was better, wouldn't you see more of those?? Yea, novice questions

29th May 2011, 08:36 PM	#6
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Perhaps, though the resemblance is too much - I think someone simply shaped buffalo horn into the look of the typical pommel and then did not proceed to make the traditional carvings, but I don't know for sure. These blades were definitely big in Lombok from the little I've read, and apparently found in central/south Sumatra... I wonder what factors prompted their being readily adopted in Sumatra?? ...versus Borneo and Java which seem to have had their own endemic parangs and pedangs already well-established. I could be wrong about my assumptions however, I am pretty new to Indonesian weapons. Sumatran weapons are the most fascinating to me, but there seems to be the least information on them... aside from the occasional Batak place, piso podang, or Acehnese collection...

1st June 2011, 07:12 PM	#8
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Hindu influence? What makes you say that? I'm not yet very good at differentiating different stylistic differences that could be attributed to Islamic, Hindu, or local beliefs...

2nd June 2011, 03:35 PM	#10
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I see... I wonder why they chose Makara as a popular motif on swords, perhaps because of the fierceness of crocodiles... Did the coming and popularity of Islam start to change the Hindu and animist stylistic elements of the weapons? I've heard that Islamic beliefs forbid the carving of idols, animals, etc. on hilt - not sure if it's true. The sword hilt you just provided an image for - is that a very reduced and stylized form of Makara?