SUASA Copper/Gold or Gold/Copper alloy

A. G. Maisey · 25th May 2011, 06:11 AM

Suasa was made and used over a very wide area at a time when there was no stardardisation of anything across this area.

The component parts of suasa vary.

I have a Lombok or Bali suasa pendok that tests as 14ct.

I have a Palembang suasa pendok that tests as slightly less.

I have a mendak that tests as 10ct.

I have several other examples of suasa that have not been tested and that vary in colour from the ones I have had tested, and from each other.

Gavin Nugent · 25th May 2011, 08:14 AM

Another example as requested.

Gav

kai · 25th May 2011, 08:55 AM

Hello Gavin,

your example would have been referred to as gold, even if it were a fairly low carat alloy. Suasa is supposed to have that copper hue but contain enough gold to avoid getting patinated when handled regularly. Basically, any yellow gold alloy (including "pure" gold) would be considered gold while red gold would be suasa (often at the low end of the carat scale).

Regards,
Kai

Gavin Nugent · 25th May 2011, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Gavin,

your example would have been referred to as gold, even if it were a fairly low carat alloy. Suasa is supposed to have that copper hue but contain enough gold to avoid getting patinated when handled regularly. Basically, any yellow gold alloy (including "pure" gold) would be considered gold while red gold would be suasa (often at the low end of the carat scale).

Regards,
Kai

Thanks Kai,

Although there is not the desirable hue as you note, the bottom image, there are 'rusty' copper 'flecks' seen in the image and found on ...what accounts for this? It is found on the bands too...just not enough melting of the alloys together?

This spear also has the same compound by the eye and it is think banding...the copper is in there...so is the gold.....

Gav

kai · 25th May 2011, 09:35 AM

Hello Gavin,

Probably impossible to ascertain from pics of your peurawot. More often than not, this is a sign of gilt construction (on copper or brass) with copper leaching out through imperfections/wear. Maybe you can find any hints under magnification?

The spear looks very much like having gilt bands. In this case the gold seems to be very thin and may have been applied from very thin sheet gold.

Regards,
Kai

Gavin Nugent · 25th May 2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Gavin,

Probably impossible to ascertain from pics of your peurawot. More often than not, this is a sign of gilt construction (on copper or brass) with copper leaching out through imperfections/wear. Maybe you can find any hints under magnification?

The spear looks very much like having gilt bands. In this case the gold seems to be very thin and may have been applied from very thin sheet gold.

Regards,
Kai

Makes perfect sense. Gilding is not often spoken of from the region.
Here is a gilt silver over brass Sumatran box I have.

Thanks

Gav

David · 26th May 2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Gavin,

your example would have been referred to as gold, even if it were a fairly low carat alloy. Suasa is supposed to have that copper hue but contain enough gold to avoid getting patinated when handled regularly. Basically, any yellow gold alloy (including "pure" gold) would be considered gold while red gold would be suasa (often at the low end of the carat scale).

Regards,
Kai

I am afraid that your judgement may not be accurate based solely on this photograph Kai. If the image isn't properly white balances hues can rage wildly.

A. G. Maisey · 26th May 2011, 08:43 PM

Yep. The camera lies. And since we got digicams and Photoshop, a lot more than it ever did previously.

kai · 28th May 2011, 02:42 AM

Hello David,

Quote:

I am afraid that your judgement may not be accurate based solely on this photograph Kai. If the image isn't properly white balances hues can rage wildly.

Sure, but do you see any hints for wrong balance settings here?

I have seen a few more pics of these pieces and am sure Gavin would correct us if our speculations would be off balance...

Regards,
Kai

Gavin Nugent · 28th May 2011, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello David,

Sure, but do you see any hints for wrong balance settings here?

I have seen a few more pics of these pieces and am sure Gavin would correct us if our speculations would be off balance...

Regards,
Kai

As far as photography goes I only ever photoshopped two listings, that being the Sadap and the exotic SEA Hudiedao and I wasn't happy with either adjustments, all other photos presented here or on my site all natural via Sony :-).

I have looked close at both pieces and they share the same hues and contrast when revolved in the light. What might be considered copperish in one light, roll it another 1/2 and inch and it carries a gold hue. So I had to go a step further and I gave the spear wrapping a very good hard scratch test with a sharp knife to one edge and it was gold at every scratch so either is it a full gold/copper alloy compound or it is a brass wrapping with a gilding that has a copper undertone to it....I feel the former as the aspects of copper showing through are not restricted to copper showing through on wear points....

Your further thoughts guys...

VANDOO · 29th May 2011, 09:53 PM

PERHAPS A BIT OFF TOPIC BUT I THINK APPROPRIATE. BLACK HILLS GOLD JEWLRY BEGAN DURING THE GOLD RUSH IN 1876 TO 1878. TRADITIONALLY IT IS MADE IN THREE COLORS. A SILVER AND GOLD MIX THAT COMES OUT A GREENISH HUE. COPPER AND GOLD MIX REFERED TO AS ROSE (IT CAN VARY FROM MORE RED TO PINK.) AND REGULAR YELLOW GOLD COLOR. SOMETHING REFERED TO AS WHITE GOLD IS ALSO USED IN JEWLRY. SEE PICTURE OF EXAMPLES OF BLACK HILLS GOLD IN TRI COLOR.
GOOGLE BLACK HILLS GOLD FOR MORE INFO IF INTERESTED

25th May 2011, 08:14 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	another Another example as requested. Gav Attached Images

29th May 2011, 09:53 PM	#11
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	PERHAPS A BIT OFF TOPIC BUT I THINK APPROPRIATE. BLACK HILLS GOLD JEWLRY BEGAN DURING THE GOLD RUSH IN 1876 TO 1878. TRADITIONALLY IT IS MADE IN THREE COLORS. A SILVER AND GOLD MIX THAT COMES OUT A GREENISH HUE. COPPER AND GOLD MIX REFERED TO AS ROSE (IT CAN VARY FROM MORE RED TO PINK.) AND REGULAR YELLOW GOLD COLOR. SOMETHING REFERED TO AS WHITE GOLD IS ALSO USED IN JEWLRY. SEE PICTURE OF EXAMPLES OF BLACK HILLS GOLD IN TRI COLOR. GOOGLE BLACK HILLS GOLD FOR MORE INFO IF INTERESTED Attached Images

25th May 2011, 06:11 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Suasa was made and used over a very wide area at a time when there was no stardardisation of anything across this area. The component parts of suasa vary. I have a Lombok or Bali suasa pendok that tests as 14ct. I have a Palembang suasa pendok that tests as slightly less. I have a mendak that tests as 10ct. I have several other examples of suasa that have not been tested and that vary in colour from the ones I have had tested, and from each other.

25th May 2011, 08:55 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Gavin, your example would have been referred to as gold, even if it were a fairly low carat alloy. Suasa is supposed to have that copper hue but contain enough gold to avoid getting patinated when handled regularly. Basically, any yellow gold alloy (including "pure" gold) would be considered gold while red gold would be suasa (often at the low end of the carat scale). Regards, Kai

25th May 2011, 09:35 AM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Gavin, Probably impossible to ascertain from pics of your peurawot. More often than not, this is a sign of gilt construction (on copper or brass) with copper leaching out through imperfections/wear. Maybe you can find any hints under magnification? The spear looks very much like having gilt bands. In this case the gold seems to be very thin and may have been applied from very thin sheet gold. Regards, Kai

26th May 2011, 08:43 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yep. The camera lies. And since we got digicams and Photoshop, a lot more than it ever did previously.