Stunning early kris

Battara · 13th May 2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

ah, Thanks for the clarification, Jose!

I thought it had something to do with the angle of the "elephant" opening as well.

A follow up question, then: Around the time that this piece was made, were Kris introduced/being made in Mindanao? If so, what did those pieces look like?

Your welcome.

You ask a good question. Unfortunately I don't have a good answer.

Gustav · 13th May 2011, 09:26 PM

It seems to me, the only way at least partially to answer these questions (which are also mine questions from #4) is to analyse several details on blade, which are more or less proved regarding the time of their appearance - for this one should be knowledgable in Javanese keris, especially in Tangguh system and in keris from old european collections.

and analyse the ornamentics on hilt, find analog features, which are in some form bound to a time frame. I think we have the most gratifying object here for such analysis before us.

Battara · 13th May 2011, 09:47 PM

Regarding the hilt, Cato says that sultan pieces were sometimes covered in gold dots - like this one. This one seems to be a transitional piece between Indonesian and Moro periods.

Who owns this one anyway?

Rick · 14th May 2011, 02:32 AM

This begs so many questions .

When was the keris/kris first introduced into the Philippines ?

Where in the Philippines was it first introduced ?
Sulu ?
Mindanao ?
Or,
Borneo ?

By whom ?
Peninsular Malays ?
Sumatera/Jawa ?

Battara · 14th May 2011, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

This begs so many questions .

When was the keris/kris first introduced into the Philippines ?

Where in the Philippines was it first introduced ?
Sulu ?
Mindanao ?
Or,
Borneo ?

By whom ?
Peninsular Malays ?
Sumatera/Jawa ?

My understanding is from Brunei and first into Sulu, at least according to tradition. I think there were 7 datus who traveled.

laEspadaAncha · 14th May 2011, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Regarding the hilt, Cato says that sultan pieces were sometimes covered in gold dots - like this one. This one seems to be a transitional piece between Indonesian and Moro periods.

Who owns this one anyway?

Not I, Jose...

Remember this piece? The "one that got away?" I still feel a slight burn when I think about it...

Spunjer · 14th May 2011, 01:35 PM

did you ever found out who got it, chris? certainly what you got was excellent as well. good provenance!

laEspadaAncha · 14th May 2011, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

did you ever found out who got it, chris? certainly what you got was excellent as well. good provenance!

Hi Spunjer,

Never did find out who the lucky recipient was, though I do know what they paid for it... Upon further consideration, I figured I could count out the most likely local (potential) buyers on one hand. Unfortunately, none of them are ever motivated to sell out of their respective collections, so I've never made a serious attempt to independently track down its new home...

Thanks, BTW...

I do feel fortunate to have acquired 3 of the 4 pieces out of this collection, and appreciate the consolation as such. I guess it's just human nature to lament the "one that got away."

Regards,

Chris

Spunjer · 14th May 2011, 09:15 PM

you know, what is so interesting in that set that you acquired, is the fact that it came with a barung. if this set was indeed captured during the battle against datu udasan, what was the barung doing in there? a suluanon merc? or was the barung carried by a maranao? if the latter was the case, is the present static assumption of these weapons still stands? again, if these were indeed captured weapons, i guess the assumption that one of the moros (perhaps datu udasan himself) owned this archaic kris, and that would be amazing in that going to a battle with (perhaps) centuries old weapon that your life depends on.

13th May 2011, 09:26 PM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	It seems to me, the only way at least partially to answer these questions (which are also mine questions from #4) is to analyse several details on blade, which are more or less proved regarding the time of their appearance - for this one should be knowledgable in Javanese keris, especially in Tangguh system and in keris from old european collections. and analyse the ornamentics on hilt, find analog features, which are in some form bound to a time frame. I think we have the most gratifying object here for such analysis before us.

13th May 2011, 09:47 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,323	Regarding the hilt, Cato says that sultan pieces were sometimes covered in gold dots - like this one. This one seems to be a transitional piece between Indonesian and Moro periods. Who owns this one anyway?

14th May 2011, 02:32 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	This begs so many questions . When was the keris/kris first introduced into the Philippines ? Where in the Philippines was it first introduced ? Sulu ? Mindanao ? Or, Borneo ? By whom ? Peninsular Malays ? Sumatera/Jawa ?

14th May 2011, 01:35 PM	#7
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	did you ever found out who got it, chris? certainly what you got was excellent as well. good provenance!

14th May 2011, 09:15 PM	#9
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	you know, what is so interesting in that set that you acquired, is the fact that it came with a barung. if this set was indeed captured during the battle against datu udasan, what was the barung doing in there? a suluanon merc? or was the barung carried by a maranao? if the latter was the case, is the present static assumption of these weapons still stands? again, if these were indeed captured weapons, i guess the assumption that one of the moros (perhaps datu udasan himself) owned this archaic kris, and that would be amazing in that going to a battle with (perhaps) centuries old weapon that your life depends on.