Stunning early kris

ThePepperSkull · 13th May 2011, 02:42 AM

Gorgeous piece! Transitional/early Kris are my absolute favourite, especially the half-waved twistcores, and this is a piece definitely worth envy!

(Now I want one of my own even more

)

Does anyone know the regional origin of this piece? I've heard it being discussed as a Sulu piece on this forum, but I'm wondering what indicators are there that clue into it being from Sulu? (I'm wondering... is it the elephant mouth/trunk shape, and the thin/shallow fullers separating the twisted core from the outer edge steel?)

Conversely I could be completely wrong in my recollections and if so, where do pieces like this magnificent example hail from?

Battara · 13th May 2011, 03:10 AM

The Sulu attribution comes from the "elephant" on the ganga and the angle of the mouth opening.

And on the hilt form - it is old and rare but present on some Moro pieces. I have seen only 2 of these on Moro kris and both were made of silver.

ThePepperSkull · 13th May 2011, 04:04 AM

ah, Thanks for the clarification, Jose!

I thought it had something to do with the angle of the "elephant" opening as well.

A follow up question, then: Around the time that this piece was made, were Kris introduced/being made in Mindanao? If so, what did those pieces look like?

Spunjer · 13th May 2011, 06:21 AM

amazing! i can imagine a point in time when this type of kris was en vogue... now, would that be considered as a jawa demam?

Gavin Nugent · 13th May 2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

now, would that be considered as a jawa demam?

I certainly would think so, and surrounded by magic!!!

Spunjer · 13th May 2011, 01:40 PM

is that what jawa demam's known for? i don't know anything about keris hilts. reason i asked is because i've seen an ivory version of this hilt, but on a later kris.
i'm wondering why this type of hilt didn't proliferate on later krises...

Battara · 13th May 2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

ah, Thanks for the clarification, Jose!

I thought it had something to do with the angle of the "elephant" opening as well.

A follow up question, then: Around the time that this piece was made, were Kris introduced/being made in Mindanao? If so, what did those pieces look like?

Your welcome.

You ask a good question. Unfortunately I don't have a good answer.

Gustav · 13th May 2011, 09:26 PM

It seems to me, the only way at least partially to answer these questions (which are also mine questions from #4) is to analyse several details on blade, which are more or less proved regarding the time of their appearance - for this one should be knowledgable in Javanese keris, especially in Tangguh system and in keris from old european collections.

and analyse the ornamentics on hilt, find analog features, which are in some form bound to a time frame. I think we have the most gratifying object here for such analysis before us.

Battara · 13th May 2011, 09:47 PM

Regarding the hilt, Cato says that sultan pieces were sometimes covered in gold dots - like this one. This one seems to be a transitional piece between Indonesian and Moro periods.

Who owns this one anyway?

Rick · 14th May 2011, 02:32 AM

This begs so many questions .

When was the keris/kris first introduced into the Philippines ?

Where in the Philippines was it first introduced ?
Sulu ?
Mindanao ?
Or,
Borneo ?

By whom ?
Peninsular Malays ?
Sumatera/Jawa ?

laEspadaAncha · 14th May 2011, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Regarding the hilt, Cato says that sultan pieces were sometimes covered in gold dots - like this one. This one seems to be a transitional piece between Indonesian and Moro periods.

Who owns this one anyway?

Not I, Jose...

Remember this piece? The "one that got away?" I still feel a slight burn when I think about it...

13th May 2011, 02:42 AM	#1
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Gorgeous piece! Transitional/early Kris are my absolute favourite, especially the half-waved twistcores, and this is a piece definitely worth envy! (Now I want one of my own even more ) Does anyone know the regional origin of this piece? I've heard it being discussed as a Sulu piece on this forum, but I'm wondering what indicators are there that clue into it being from Sulu? (I'm wondering... is it the elephant mouth/trunk shape, and the thin/shallow fullers separating the twisted core from the outer edge steel?) Conversely I could be completely wrong in my recollections and if so, where do pieces like this magnificent example hail from?

13th May 2011, 03:10 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	The Sulu attribution comes from the "elephant" on the ganga and the angle of the mouth opening. And on the hilt form - it is old and rare but present on some Moro pieces. I have seen only 2 of these on Moro kris and both were made of silver.

13th May 2011, 04:04 AM	#3
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	ah, Thanks for the clarification, Jose! I thought it had something to do with the angle of the "elephant" opening as well. A follow up question, then: Around the time that this piece was made, were Kris introduced/being made in Mindanao? If so, what did those pieces look like?

13th May 2011, 06:21 AM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	amazing! i can imagine a point in time when this type of kris was en vogue... now, would that be considered as a jawa demam?

13th May 2011, 01:40 PM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	is that what jawa demam's known for? i don't know anything about keris hilts. reason i asked is because i've seen an ivory version of this hilt, but on a later kris. i'm wondering why this type of hilt didn't proliferate on later krises...

13th May 2011, 09:26 PM	#8
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	It seems to me, the only way at least partially to answer these questions (which are also mine questions from #4) is to analyse several details on blade, which are more or less proved regarding the time of their appearance - for this one should be knowledgable in Javanese keris, especially in Tangguh system and in keris from old european collections. and analyse the ornamentics on hilt, find analog features, which are in some form bound to a time frame. I think we have the most gratifying object here for such analysis before us.

13th May 2011, 09:47 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Regarding the hilt, Cato says that sultan pieces were sometimes covered in gold dots - like this one. This one seems to be a transitional piece between Indonesian and Moro periods. Who owns this one anyway?

14th May 2011, 02:32 AM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	This begs so many questions . When was the keris/kris first introduced into the Philippines ? Where in the Philippines was it first introduced ? Sulu ? Mindanao ? Or, Borneo ? By whom ? Peninsular Malays ? Sumatera/Jawa ?