Newbie: Lots of Help Needed!

Tim Simmons · 11th July 2005, 05:29 PM

I am not really clued up on this sort of thing, but your small or day sword would appear to be most probably early 19th cent. It has the late form of knuckle bow and the cast romantic classical scenes are typical features of this time. As for origin, it is safest to just say NW Europe. In spite of the name there is nothing small about the blade, yours looks particulary strong and though obviously not made for the charge of the light brigade, is more than just decoration or male jewellery for a civilian. Tim

Bill · 11th July 2005, 05:57 PM

I hope there is some comments on the taibon & the carvings on it. The reflection of the flash makes it kind of hard to see, it would be nice to see some closer images. I have a very simular one (minus the carvings) that has providence to 1930's Negros; & have seen them refered to as coming from Luzon but I think they are generally accepted as coming from Cebu, Leyte, Samar & Bohol. Does the lack of the deeper belly indicate location? Not sure what the bottom figure is, the defiant fist of the Katipunan?, is the suit coated hand depicting Jose Rizal?, does the image suggest holding a pistol?

Ian · 11th July 2005, 08:36 PM

The talibon appears to be from approximately the WWII period and most likely comes from the eastern Visayas (Samar, Leyte, Cebu, etc.), as noted already.

Your European small sword appears to be a 19th C. copy of an earlier example, probably based on a mid- to late-18th C. style. The type of blade, with a trefoil blade and exaggerated forte, is termed colichmarde and is found on swords from the mid-18th C. on.

There is a nice discussion of small swords on the SFI Forum here: http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=51744

Ian.

Aurangzeb · 11th July 2005, 09:20 PM

Hi Lace!

After examining mine and your pictures I whould say yes it was made out of a leaf-spring. One last thing to find out is it flat on one side like it apperers on the pictures and sharpend on the oter or was it sharpend on each side? These are very good knives. The sheath might be later but I don't think so, my talibon's sheath is a light wood while the handldle is darker and harder, but then again the handle on mine don't fit right.

Mark...

Ian · 12th July 2005, 05:00 AM

Lace:

I have uploaded the pictures of your talibon so that we can look at it on this page rather than switching back and forth (you can upload files directly by using the "Attachment" feature found below the text area in the "Posting" page).

The carving on your talibon sheath appears to be typical work from the early 20th C and later. The eagle and crest can be found on several Philippine coins during the period of American colonization, roughly 1900-1945, when the coins of the Philippines were US currency. This is the Philippines style of eagle, not the American style of eagle found on US coins.

The five-pointed star with an inner circle may be a Katipunan symbol, but I am unsure and would have to do some research. Perhaps others have a more definite identification for you. The fist (left-hand in a cuffed shirt sleeve) was a Katipunan symbol of defiance, but it is still found today on Philippine knives and does not necessarily date this knife or scabbard to the period of Katipunan activities during the uprising against Spain and the early years of American rule.

The ensemble is very similar to other knives and scabbards produced in the eastern Visayas immediately after WWII, largely to sell to returning GIs as souvenirs. This part of the Philippines was the first to be liberated from Japanese occupation upon Macarthur's return, and a lot of GIs passed through this area, which probably accounts for the large number of GI bringbacks we see from the eastern Visayas dating to that time.

This style of narrow-bladed knife is fairly common. I have attached a picture of one of mine from around the same time period that has a dog-head pommel, similar narrow blade, and the scabbard has a Philippine coin embedded which shows the eagle and crest.

Ian.

11th July 2005, 05:29 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	I am not really clued up on this sort of thing, but your small or day sword would appear to be most probably early 19th cent. It has the late form of knuckle bow and the cast romantic classical scenes are typical features of this time. As for origin, it is safest to just say NW Europe. In spite of the name there is nothing small about the blade, yours looks particulary strong and though obviously not made for the charge of the light brigade, is more than just decoration or male jewellery for a civilian. Tim Last edited by Tim Simmons; 11th July 2005 at 05:31 PM. Reason: spelling

12th July 2005, 05:00 AM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,366	Lace: I have uploaded the pictures of your talibon so that we can look at it on this page rather than switching back and forth (you can upload files directly by using the "Attachment" feature found below the text area in the "Posting" page). The carving on your talibon sheath appears to be typical work from the early 20th C and later. The eagle and crest can be found on several Philippine coins during the period of American colonization, roughly 1900-1945, when the coins of the Philippines were US currency. This is the Philippines style of eagle, not the American style of eagle found on US coins. The five-pointed star with an inner circle may be a Katipunan symbol, but I am unsure and would have to do some research. Perhaps others have a more definite identification for you. The fist (left-hand in a cuffed shirt sleeve) was a Katipunan symbol of defiance, but it is still found today on Philippine knives and does not necessarily date this knife or scabbard to the period of Katipunan activities during the uprising against Spain and the early years of American rule. The ensemble is very similar to other knives and scabbards produced in the eastern Visayas immediately after WWII, largely to sell to returning GIs as souvenirs. This part of the Philippines was the first to be liberated from Japanese occupation upon Macarthur's return, and a lot of GIs passed through this area, which probably accounts for the large number of GI bringbacks we see from the eastern Visayas dating to that time. This style of narrow-bladed knife is fairly common. I have attached a picture of one of mine from around the same time period that has a dog-head pommel, similar narrow blade, and the scabbard has a Philippine coin embedded which shows the eagle and crest. Ian. Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 12th July 2005 at 05:22 AM.

11th July 2005, 05:57 PM	#2
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	I hope there is some comments on the taibon & the carvings on it. The reflection of the flash makes it kind of hard to see, it would be nice to see some closer images. I have a very simular one (minus the carvings) that has providence to 1930's Negros; & have seen them refered to as coming from Luzon but I think they are generally accepted as coming from Cebu, Leyte, Samar & Bohol. Does the lack of the deeper belly indicate location? Not sure what the bottom figure is, the defiant fist of the Katipunan?, is the suit coated hand depicting Jose Rizal?, does the image suggest holding a pistol?

11th July 2005, 08:36 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,366	The talibon appears to be from approximately the WWII period and most likely comes from the eastern Visayas (Samar, Leyte, Cebu, etc.), as noted already. Your European small sword appears to be a 19th C. copy of an earlier example, probably based on a mid- to late-18th C. style. The type of blade, with a trefoil blade and exaggerated forte, is termed colichmarde and is found on swords from the mid-18th C. on. There is a nice discussion of small swords on the SFI Forum here: http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...threadid=51744 Ian.

11th July 2005, 09:20 PM	#4
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hi Lace! After examining mine and your pictures I whould say yes it was made out of a leaf-spring. One last thing to find out is it flat on one side like it apperers on the pictures and sharpend on the oter or was it sharpend on each side? These are very good knives. The sheath might be later but I don't think so, my talibon's sheath is a light wood while the handldle is darker and harder, but then again the handle on mine don't fit right. Mark...