Mystery and very interesting keris hilt

David · 5th April 2011, 03:22 AM

Could this be an older hilt that for some reason was more recently "enhanced" with carvings?

Rick · 5th April 2011, 04:02 AM

Remnants of Lime rubbing ??

PenangsangII · 5th April 2011, 05:29 AM

I would opine the hilt came from Selayar island or Buton.... but my last dollar is to Selayar provenance.

Selayar is known to its hybrid ukiran/hulu/pangulu - across between Celebes and Java...bird hulu with nunggak semi style.....

Sajen · 5th April 2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

I would opine the hilt came from Selayar island or Buton.... but my last dollar is to Selayar provenance.

Selayar is known to its hybrid ukiran/hulu/pangulu - across between Celebes and Java...bird hulu with nunggak semi style.....

Hello Penangsang,

very interesting hint! Do you can show any examples?

Regards,

Detlef

kai · 5th April 2011, 10:30 AM

Quote:

I would opine the hilt came from Selayar island or Buton....

Interesting suggestion - could you please post any pics of resembling hilts? TIA!

I'm with Alan that the hilt does have some age - maybe not antique but around WW2 or possibly first half of 20th c. sounds good to me.

The carving is pretty rough. I guess this is a village/DIY example which will be very tough to place unless we find a provenanced example with similar features: especially the rounded/curved gestalt seems noteworthy. Then again, this might just have been a shortcut...

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 5th April 2011, 10:58 AM

David, I'm reading that light area as greyish wood caused by age and dirt. I feel that if this was brushed lightly and repeatedly with baby oil, with good hot-hand rubbings in between you'd have something that looked a lot different.

The carving is fairly crude, I'd guess somebody's work for himself.

As to age, I would not place it in the post WWII period. Wood that has not been subjected to sunlight can be very, very deceptive.

Jean · 5th April 2011, 02:12 PM

I would agree that this seems to be a village piece and probably about 50 years old (the peksi hole shows signs of wear and possibly repair). I have no clear idea about its origin but noticed an interesting detail: at the base of the right side (left on the picture), just above the tumpal motif, I can see a stylized leg, while on the other side it looks like a reversed curled foot or fish tail; this is similar to the decoration of the putrasatu hilts from East Java/ Madura (see typical specimen) so the hilt from Sajen may originate from this region. As an additional indication it would also be useful to know where it was found .

Marcokeris · 5th April 2011, 02:59 PM

IMHO from Sumbawa ... and not so old

Sajen · 5th April 2011, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

I would agree that this seems to be a village piece and probably about 50 years old (the peksi hole shows signs of wear and possibly repair). I have no clear idea about its origin but noticed an interesting detail: at the base of the right side (left on the picture), just above the tumpal motif, I can see a stylized leg, while on the other side it looks like a reversed curled foot or fish tail; this is similar to the decoration of the putrasatu hilts from East Java/ Madura (see typical specimen) so the hilt from Sajen may originate from this region. As an additional indication it would also be useful to know where it was found .

Very good observation Jean!

So I write in post #1 that you can see a stylized raksasa figure in it. BTW, I have had this hilt long time on a small Madura keris and it looked good.

Regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 5th April 2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, I'm reading that light area as greyish wood caused by age and dirt. I feel that if this was brushed lightly and repeatedly with baby oil, with good hot-hand rubbings in between you'd have something that looked a lot different.
As to age, I would not place it in the post WWII period. Wood that has not been subjected to sunlight can be very, very deceptive.

You meet the point! The hilt have had a thick dirt patination, when I received it the carving was not visible. The hilt get a cleaning and a brush with a wood oil. The hilt is placed inside a cabinet but with the years the carved out areas get this colour. It is out of question, this hilt have a good age, maybe not antique but old.

Sajen · 5th April 2011, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Remnants of Lime rubbing ??

Hi Rick,

no lime rubbing. The carved out areas look so white from flash light.

Regards,

Detlef

5th April 2011, 02:12 PM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I would agree that this seems to be a village piece and probably about 50 years old (the peksi hole shows signs of wear and possibly repair). I have no clear idea about its origin but noticed an interesting detail: at the base of the right side (left on the picture), just above the tumpal motif, I can see a stylized leg, while on the other side it looks like a reversed curled foot or fish tail; this is similar to the decoration of the putrasatu hilts from East Java/ Madura (see typical specimen) so the hilt from Sajen may originate from this region. As an additional indication it would also be useful to know where it was found . Attached Images

5th April 2011, 03:22 AM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	Could this be an older hilt that for some reason was more recently "enhanced" with carvings?

5th April 2011, 04:02 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Remnants of Lime rubbing ??

5th April 2011, 05:29 AM	#3
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	I would opine the hilt came from Selayar island or Buton.... but my last dollar is to Selayar provenance. Selayar is known to its hybrid ukiran/hulu/pangulu - across between Celebes and Java...bird hulu with nunggak semi style.....

5th April 2011, 10:58 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	David, I'm reading that light area as greyish wood caused by age and dirt. I feel that if this was brushed lightly and repeatedly with baby oil, with good hot-hand rubbings in between you'd have something that looked a lot different. The carving is fairly crude, I'd guess somebody's work for himself. As to age, I would not place it in the post WWII period. Wood that has not been subjected to sunlight can be very, very deceptive.

5th April 2011, 02:59 PM	#8
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	IMHO from Sumbawa ... and not so old