Resin, traditional recipies

Robert · 19th March 2011, 01:30 AM

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you are looking for but here are a few links on cutler's resin that might be of some interest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutler's_resin
http://www.marquis-kyle.com.au/mt/000646.htm
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/i...e;topic=4491.0

Robert

tom hyle · 19th March 2011, 03:55 AM

The cutler's resin Robert mentions sounds like the stuff European cutlers use/used in table cutlery. It is rather chalky and not suitable for sword tangs.
I have a chunk of tree resin out of a tulwar hilt that is reinforced with twisted copper wires a-la re-bar.
The use of the right tree is important and from what I read in old sources, the process is rather tricky to get "just right"
Also, modern artist's/jeweler's black pitch is not the same by any means as the stuff inside old Asian sword handles, BTW. Specifically, it is softer, in my experience.

kronckew · 19th March 2011, 09:15 AM

nepali 'laha' used to glue on khukuri grips is made from tree resin and buffalo dung (for the fibre), maybe with a bit of beeswax. smells wonderful when heated

Tim Simmons · 19th March 2011, 09:29 AM

Gum Arabic, might be more suited to the region. My dabblings with tree and damar is that they are brittle unless very thick in section. Mixed with bees wax makes it much less brittle but opaque and the colour will depend on how dark the wax is. Adding powdered charcoal also seems to add to the hardness. There are resins that when set are not brittle and clear, I have examples but have no idea what the source is.

Picture of resins and small piece of resin with beeswax and 1kg block of beeswax actually two 500g blocks fused together. Dark colours might come from resin found in the wild or locally preperation as opposed to buying an industrial prepared product. Also one has now idea what additions and handling an item might have been through in the original making.

David R · 20th March 2011, 12:12 AM

Some time back on a site dedicated to Kukri's they mentioned a mixture of resin and honey as the glue to fix tang into hilt. By the way, hooray, at last serious discussion about these fixatives. I think many of us have sadly looked at a dismounted tulwar and wondered how to get it back together.
One of the posters on sword forum international gave a rough compo he used on a kilij type sword that involved resin and brick dust along with, I think, sealing wax.

fearn · 20th March 2011, 03:54 AM

I recall that the first volume of Traditional Bowyer's Bible had some recipes for traditional glues used with bows. Considering the stresses bows undergo, they might work okay.

F

tunggulametung · 20th March 2011, 05:16 AM

I have a kalis tang that appear to be fixed with Tien Ta Yao Gin

at least the odor and color matched

. It appear to be used to lacquer the cord on the hilt as well. It is easy to find in Java but not sure about south PI. I heard gondorukem were used on keris but never find evidence, nice woody scent when heated. It is hard and bound to wooden surface alright (cord also I guess) but I would say somewhat brittle. Need to check how it bound to iron.

Gavin Nugent · 20th March 2011, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

I recall that the first volume of Traditional Bowyer's Bible had some recipes for traditional glues used with bows. Considering the stresses bows undergo, they might work okay.

F

Great thought Fearn, I don't have the volumes you speak of but I'll consult Klopsteg's Turkish Archery and see what hides within, thanks!

I must say everyone has put forth some great input in to the thread. I'd love to see it develop deeper in to manufaturing processes, even weapons specific.

Gav

Tim Simmons · 20th March 2011, 09:38 AM

Many Indian and other Asian weapons have the tang set in a grainy plaster/cement like compound. In trying to repair a choora hilt I found the tang held with this substance which hand become very crumbly.

This substance is like a fine lime mortar. Lime mortar in ancient.

19th March 2011, 09:29 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Gum Arabic, might be more suited to the region. My dabblings with tree and damar is that they are brittle unless very thick in section. Mixed with bees wax makes it much less brittle but opaque and the colour will depend on how dark the wax is. Adding powdered charcoal also seems to add to the hardness. There are resins that when set are not brittle and clear, I have examples but have no idea what the source is. Picture of resins and small piece of resin with beeswax and 1kg block of beeswax actually two 500g blocks fused together. Dark colours might come from resin found in the wild or locally preperation as opposed to buying an industrial prepared product. Also one has now idea what additions and handling an item might have been through in the original making. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 19th March 2011 at 09:58 AM.

20th March 2011, 12:12 AM	#5
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,116	Resins Some time back on a site dedicated to Kukri's they mentioned a mixture of resin and honey as the glue to fix tang into hilt. By the way, hooray, at last serious discussion about these fixatives. I think many of us have sadly looked at a dismounted tulwar and wondered how to get it back together. One of the posters on sword forum international gave a rough compo he used on a kilij type sword that involved resin and brick dust along with, I think, sealing wax.

20th March 2011, 09:38 AM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Many Indian and other Asian weapons have the tang set in a grainy plaster/cement like compound. In trying to repair a choora hilt I found the tang held with this substance which hand become very crumbly. This substance is like a fine lime mortar. Lime mortar in ancient. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 20th March 2011 at 09:59 AM.

19th March 2011, 01:30 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	I'm not sure if this is exactly what you are looking for but here are a few links on cutler's resin that might be of some interest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutler's_resin http://www.marquis-kyle.com.au/mt/000646.htm http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/i...e;topic=4491.0 Robert

19th March 2011, 03:55 AM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The cutler's resin Robert mentions sounds like the stuff European cutlers use/used in table cutlery. It is rather chalky and not suitable for sword tangs. I have a chunk of tree resin out of a tulwar hilt that is reinforced with twisted copper wires a-la re-bar. The use of the right tree is important and from what I read in old sources, the process is rather tricky to get "just right" Also, modern artist's/jeweler's black pitch is not the same by any means as the stuff inside old Asian sword handles, BTW. Specifically, it is softer, in my experience.

19th March 2011, 09:15 AM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	nepali 'laha' used to glue on khukuri grips is made from tree resin and buffalo dung (for the fibre), maybe with a bit of beeswax. smells wonderful when heated

20th March 2011, 03:54 AM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I recall that the first volume of Traditional Bowyer's Bible had some recipes for traditional glues used with bows. Considering the stresses bows undergo, they might work okay. F

20th March 2011, 05:16 AM	#7
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	I have a kalis tang that appear to be fixed with Tien Ta Yao Gin at least the odor and color matched . It appear to be used to lacquer the cord on the hilt as well. It is easy to find in Java but not sure about south PI. I heard gondorukem were used on keris but never find evidence, nice woody scent when heated. It is hard and bound to wooden surface alright (cord also I guess) but I would say somewhat brittle. Need to check how it bound to iron.