Drum like flyssa marking

[Emanuel]

Hi Jim,

While gathering material on Kabylia and the Iflissen, I found these pictures of motifs used on traditional Kabyle pottery. Notice that one symbol, the double drum means "axe", while the double zigzaging lines could mean "arrow" or "mosquito". I will keep looking at the various symbols we sometimes see on flyssas.

Will you be at this year's Timonium?

All the best!
Emanuel

[tom hyle]

I did not know about the use of talking drums by Afrasians (ex. Berbers), but among the Bantus (ie formerly "negroes") to their South/West talking drums and talking trumpets are traditionally very important royal/warfare tools for their instant communication power.
Flyssa per se is AFAIK a Kabyle tribe weapon, but a whole slew of awfully flyssa-like kodmes etc. ("wedding banquet nimchas") seem to be more widely distributed.

[kronckew]

there is a drum-like object on the port side of my flyssa near the integral bolster. the carry strap is on the bolster side of the 'drum' (1st photo attached)

interestingly, there is a khukuri kami (blacksmith) in nepal that uses a similar Madal Drum (<-linky) mark (2nd photo) with the strap. jokingly referred to as the 'beer mug' kami. More Madal Drums <-linky - shows vertically displayed drums with cords curlicued off in similar to the curled lines off my flyssa 'drum', they appear to be the ends of the cords used to mount & tighten the drumheads, left long but curled up.

edited:
p.s. - i thought i remembered us discussing this in a flyssa thread before. heck, it was 4 years ago!

HERE

i'd posted pics of mine there but the decoration was not clearly what jim mentioned in his post #13 & it didn't sink in with me at the time.

[tom hyle]

drums of War are signal drums other cultures, too, of course

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Emanuel, Tom and Kronckew for reviving this old thread! I still find the symbolism and motif on the flyssa fascinating, especially these odd variations from the somewhat standard geometrics. While I dont have my old notes handy at the moment, this sure makes me want to find them. It seems like somewhere the drum served as some kind of symbol of authority.

On the 'talking drums' it seems that as Tom notes, they were closely associated with Bantu speaking people as well as most West African regions.
I have the book on these drum signals but cant recall the title at the moment. It seems that the 'syntax' has to do somewhat with the dialects and languages that incorporate sounds like clicking, but again, details not handy at the moment. Naturally 'Hollywood' has made pretty much a cliche' out of these drum signals and messages, but they really are a fascinating and viable means of communication of these intriguing tribal peoples.

Best regards,
Jim

[tom hyle]

The syntax is based on spoken speach and progresses by means of the ability to produce two distinct tones, from what I've read and heard

[katana]

Just a few observations of the symbols shown by Emanuel....and a few thoughts 'outside the box' ....so bear with me

The symbol for lune (moon) and that of marteau (hammer) are very similar (related ?). Which makes me wonder about several possibillities.

If this symbolism is widely accepted across the Saharal regions ....could this indicate the reason of the the moon symbols on Tabouka ? It is interesting that the moon and hammer symbols seemed linked perhaps because...

The hammer is the main tool of the blacksmith/bladesmith.
Forging during the day with the heat of the sun and forge would be 'uncomfortable'....perhaps dusk/evening would be prefered ?
Whilst heat treating the steel the 'colour' of the steel would need to be acurately gauged....dusk/night time might be much better conditions than direct sunlight ?

Could evening be the best time to forge blades ...hence the hammer and moon link ?? Could a blade forged at 'night' be considered a better blade and the moon mark be a sign of quality ??

My other observation is the Soleil (Sun) symbol ...it is almost an interpretation of the famed 'eyelash' mark ???? Perhaps coincidence ....but interesting never the less.

Regards David

[Emanuel]

Excellent observations David! The sun mark's similarity to the gourda mark had come to mind but I didn't make the connections to the moon marks. Note that those are usually back to back )||(, not front to front (||) . Very nice extra-box thinking

Here's a thought that's been bugging me since I saw the axe symbol. I haven't found pictures of any similar double-headed axes used in north Africa. The symbol does however remind me strongly of the "labrys" the axe symbol of the Minoan civilization (see attached).
As always, this can be simple coincidence, but it's fascinating to think that such symbols should persist for so long in cultural memory.

Emanuel