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Old 14th March 2011, 04:37 PM   #1
A Senefelder
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Cole, from the look of the pic the edging around the neck line looks as if it may be thin leather. The 17th century Polish scale cuirass i've seen in the Baltimore museum was done in that manner and looked similar to what I can see in the picture. Hopefully Peter can shed some light on this.
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Old 14th March 2011, 09:00 PM   #2
ncioran
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Thanks Allan!

Is it in the Walter's Collection? I wouldn't mind tracking that one down either.

Cole
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Old 15th March 2011, 12:59 PM   #3
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Cole you'll have to forgive me, it was about 20 years ago ( my sisters graduation from college where Mr. Rogers was the commencement speaker ) so I do not recall the name of the gallery. It was a nice little art gallery in Baltimore and thier collection of arms and armour at that time was in thier basement which at that time was set up like a castle complete with stonework and stone spiral staircase to access it IIRC.
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Old 16th March 2011, 02:34 AM   #4
pbleed
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Dear Friends,
cole and I had a couple of off line exchanges. Perhaps some on the forum will find them of interest
Thanks very much your message. I appreciate that Alan Senenfelder was kind enough to pass it along to you. Indeed, thanks to the good offices of Madelein Roberg, we have a very good analysis of the fibers and fabrics of the scale armor we are studying.
For now, let me pass along some summary information
1. Your observations on the structure of the armor are very good. We will present a summary of the structure in our final report of the armor.
2. The Fabric Substrate
What you call the " The Fabric Substrate " is composed of irregular, undyed "bast fiber"
3. The "Tape"
The tape is twill woven cotton with a blue dyed warp element. In use, this tape was doubled and the scales are attached by rivets . My colleague Doug Scott found a reference to what seems to be very similar tape used as "lace" on the British army uniforms of "other ranks" of War of 1812.
The main thread used to attach the riveted tapes to the "fabric substrate" is thick, doubled bast fiber
4 The fabric that you call the "lining" is a bit problematical. It may indeed, have been a lining that reached entirely across the face opposite of the scale.
It is twill-woven cotton
5. The "Top"
The fabric along the front neckline of the armor is undyed bast fiber.
6. Now, let me ask you to look once again at the brass spanner nuts that hold the slot-headed screws at either side of the armor. Senenfeld sees that as potentially rather old. And he may be right, but I see it as a well machined bit of hardware. I could see it as very 19th century. I am also not finding very much literature on the chronology of nuts and bolts. Can you share any expertise?
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Old 16th March 2011, 01:48 PM   #5
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Peter, the timing of your posting this has been immaculate. Cole will be begining construction on a scale garment fairly soon after he picks up the scales i've made for him and the opportunity to view the construction of this piece will be of great help i'm sure.
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Old 17th March 2011, 01:30 PM   #6
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Allan,

I couldn't agree more, thanks very much to both you and Peter!

Cole
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Old 24th March 2011, 07:49 PM   #7
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I HAD A COUPLE OF FRIENDS WHO MAKE AND COLLECT ARMOR TAKE A LOOK AS I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ARMOR. UNFORTUNATELY NEITHER ONE IS A MEMBER SO COULD NOT POST.
THEY SAID IT APPEARED SIMILAR TO THE POLISH WINGED HORSEMAN ARMOR PERHAPS A MANTLE TO COVER THE REGION OF THE SHOULDER. CIRCA 1650 TO 1700. SO YOU MIGHT SEARCH THE FORUM AS THIS WAS DISCUSSED IN THE PAST AND GOOGLE IT. AT LEAST IT GIVES YOU A DIRECTION IN WHICH TO SEARCH. THEY BOTH AGREED IT WAS NOT MADE FOR THEATRICAL OR LODGE USE BUT AUTHENTIC ARMOR THAT WAS WELL AND PROPERLY MADE.
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