Den Pasar Museum

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The "cinquadea" type keris is a pretty scarce type. I have two, but I've only ever seen four altogether.

Would i be correct that the "cinquadea" type keris is #12. Instead of describing it that way i would be more inclined to see it as a Balinese take on a keris sepang. I have never seen one like this. Do you know much about these Alan? Does this type of keris serve the same "purpose" as keris sepang? I'd say you are fortunate to have 2 of these in your possession.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah, its valid to call it a sepang. I just followed Gav's lead, and as a general rule I don't really care too much about what anybody calls something, as long as we understand one another.

I do not know anything about them except that they are exceptionally rare. My two are quite heavy, substantial pieces, but I do not know where they come from, what period, Balinese name, who used them,nor anything else.

Incidentally, those photos were taken with a Canon 980 IS. This is a little P&S shirt pocket camera. In virtually all the inside shots the light was incredibly poor. I have never been so satisfied with any camera that I've owned, and I've owned a few.

[VANDOO]

HOPEFULLY WHAT IS ALREADY THERE AT THE MUSEUM WILL REMAIN THE SAME AND PERHAPS THEY WILL ADD A INSIDE DISPLAY AREA WITH ARTEFACTS THAT NEED MORE CARE AND PROTECTION.
ONE OF THE THINGS I LIKE ABOUT BALI IS THERE ARE NO DEAD SHRINES THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO PUTS FLOWERS OR OFFERINGS ON THEM ALL, USUALLY EVERY DAY. THOUGH THE BUILDINGS MAY BE A MUSEUM DISPLAY THEY STILL LIVE IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE AND OFFERNINGS ARE NO DOUBT MADE TO THE SPIRITS OF THE LAND AND TO THE SHRINES. BALI IS A VERY SPIRITUAL PLACE AS WELL AS A VERY EARTHLY ONE.
THANKS FOR THE PICTURES IT BRINGS BACK MEMORIES AND MAKES ME WANT TO RETURN FOR A VISIT.

[kulbuntet]

Pak Alan,

Did you see in your visit to the museum a bali wedung? One like i did post here about a year ago? You thought the name could be pentaga, but you were not sure about it. I hope you maybe seen one there, and that you maybe could remeber the information given by the museum.

Regards,

Michel

[A. G. Maisey]

Michel, there is a photo of one of these little axes on page two, and I'm posting it here also.

The display tag reads "tiuk pengentas, for cutting covering corpse"

The name I gave in response to your original query was "pengantas", I was running on memory, and I made an error.

"tiuk" is Balinese for "knife", so this is a pengentas knife. I do not know the meaning of "pengentas", but it has been explained to me that at a funeral procession one of these knives precedes the procession.

This form is only one of the styles that have the same name, I have seen, and owned, other Balinese knives and axes that had the same name.

Michel, I appreciate your courtesy, but there really is no need to use "Pak" when you address me. I'm not Indonesian, and this is an English language forum, so we use the rules of English language etiquette, which do not include addressing somebody as Mr. (pak) + given name.

When I'm in Indonesia it would offend me if somebody younger or of inferior status did not use "Pak" when they addressed me, but on this forum, we are not in Indonesia.

[Gavin Nugent]

If Agreed I can supply images of these knives leading and being used in a funeral ceremony, also many Keris in the procession too.

I took the crowded journey and many images of the ceremony in Ubud during my stay, I was told by locals it was the biggest ceremony in a very long time.

If improper, please let me know and I will refrain.

Gav

[A. G. Maisey]

In my opinion this would not be at all improper.

I do not understand the Balinese language, but I have been present at a couple of cremations, and the comments that have been interpreted for me have not been in the slightest degree respectful of the corpse.

To my understanding there is a clear distinction between the corpse, which is merely a vehicle, and the person who has passed, which is the spirit.

Actually there are quite a lot of photos of Balinese cremation on the net. If you google "balinese cremation" you'll get more images than you know what to do with.

[Battara]

Originally Posted by freebooter

If Agreed I can supply images of these knives leading and being used in a funeral ceremony, also many Keris in the procession too.

Gav, I would love for you to post pictures of these and their context. I love ceremonial pieces and have a Balinese ceremonial axe, pierced and silvered, and would love to see the context from which it comes.