Scientific methods

Gavin Nugent · 5th March 2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

Hi gav,
Photoshop can do wonders. Sometimes i would see stuff after taking pics on higher megapixels, then enhancing the picture further...

Thanks Ron. I have done this with good results thus far as the residue showed as a nice blue colour on the steel, I was then able to print the image and line draw on the print out from what I viewed on the screen...I will continue to try this method but I fear there are just a few key sections on the edges of the cartouches that I just can't get clear enough....maybe a lot easier if I had an A3 printer rather than the A4 one that everyone seems to have at home.

Gav

mrwizard · 5th March 2011, 03:18 PM

It is a bit tedious but examining the surface with a simple microscope might help on the unreadable sections. I'm sure if you ask politely, someone from the university of Queensland will help you with access to the right equipment. I would start asking a mineralogy or materials science department.

Best Regards,
Thilo

Gavin Nugent · 5th March 2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrwizard

It is a bit tedious but examining the surface with a simple microscope might help on the unreadable sections. I'm sure if you ask politely, someone from the university of Queensland will help you with access to the right equipment. I would start asking a mineralogy or materials science department.

Best Regards,
Thilo

Hi Thilo, thank you for a great suggestion!
I recently sold an item to a chap in the Physics dept at UQ...I hope he is receptive to the idea and can offer direction.

I'll let you know if I have success with this method.

Gav

fearn · 5th March 2011, 05:23 PM

Hi Gav,

Talc isn't a bad idea. Check out the techniques for seeing the images on old gravestones and petroglyphs. Basically, use a non-staining fine powder that has a color in contrast to the surface, to fill in the grooves and make them more evident.

Alternatively, light the piece from a low angle, along the blade (like the setting sun), so that the shadows from any grooves or ridges stand out.

So far as the microscope goes, you want a dissecting microscope, not a compound microscope. If you can't get anything from the physicist, you can often buy one surplus for well under a thousand dollars. Or if that's too much, there are number of simple magnifiers (for jewelers, fishing fly makers and other hobbyists) which would work too.

Best,

F

katana · 5th March 2011, 06:55 PM

Hi Gav,
I recently purchased a USB Digital Microscope....with a mag of up to 200x . It is fantastic, allows you to take snap shots via the PC. I highly recommend one...and they are relatively cheap (around £60 ) When I get a chance I will add some images created with the microscope so that you can see the results

I do not think talc would help much, wouldn't it just highlight the cross hatching to which the gold is applied

or am I mistaken

Kind Regards David

fearn · 5th March 2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Gav,
I recently purchased a USB Digital Microscope....with a mag of up to 200x . It is fantastic, allows you to take snap shots via the PC. I highly recommend one...and they are relatively cheap (around £60 ) When I get a chance I will add some images created with the microscope so that you can see the results

Hi David,

Which brand of microscope? There are a bunch out there, and some seem to have gotten bad reviews.

F

katana · 5th March 2011, 09:14 PM

Hi Gav,
here are some quick images including a blade, stitching and woven reed pattern (reeding less than 0.75 mm in width) on an african scabbard, a British 50p piece, human hair and a metal tape measure (each graduation = 1mm)

I am suitably impressed

Regards David

.

mrwizard · 5th March 2011, 10:04 PM

Hello everybody,

USB microscopes can be really fun and may even be sufficient for the task at hand but everthing written on the box should be taken with a containership-load of salt.

Here is an article that explains some of the principal constraints http://www.msscweb.org/public/articl...nification.pdf

My guess the optical magnification of most inexpensive usb-microscopes is in the range of 20x-30x.
Another concern is the Depth of Field which is likely very small. Again, these things are fun might be sufficient for what Gav wants to achieve.

I personally own a Lomo MBS-10 microscope that i use regulary for hobby purposes. The thing is build like a tank and has good optical components. Still I don't get much more out of it than 100x. I wouldn't even dare to compare it to the modern scientific microscopes found at most universities.

@Gav: Don't buy any microscope if you don't plan to use it regulary.

Best Regards,
Thilo

5th March 2011, 06:55 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Gav, I recently purchased a USB Digital Microscope....with a mag of up to 200x . It is fantastic, allows you to take snap shots via the PC. I highly recommend one...and they are relatively cheap (around £60 ) When I get a chance I will add some images created with the microscope so that you can see the results I do not think talc would help much, wouldn't it just highlight the cross hatching to which the gold is applied or am I mistaken Kind Regards David Last edited by katana; 6th March 2011 at 06:35 PM.

5th March 2011, 09:14 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Gav, here are some quick images including a blade, stitching and woven reed pattern (reeding less than 0.75 mm in width) on an african scabbard, a British 50p piece, human hair and a metal tape measure (each graduation = 1mm) I am suitably impressed Regards David . Attached Images

5th March 2011, 03:18 PM	#2
mrwizard Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 102	It is a bit tedious but examining the surface with a simple microscope might help on the unreadable sections. I'm sure if you ask politely, someone from the university of Queensland will help you with access to the right equipment. I would start asking a mineralogy or materials science department. Best Regards, Thilo

5th March 2011, 05:23 PM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Gav, Talc isn't a bad idea. Check out the techniques for seeing the images on old gravestones and petroglyphs. Basically, use a non-staining fine powder that has a color in contrast to the surface, to fill in the grooves and make them more evident. Alternatively, light the piece from a low angle, along the blade (like the setting sun), so that the shadows from any grooves or ridges stand out. So far as the microscope goes, you want a dissecting microscope, not a compound microscope. If you can't get anything from the physicist, you can often buy one surplus for well under a thousand dollars. Or if that's too much, there are number of simple magnifiers (for jewelers, fishing fly makers and other hobbyists) which would work too. Best, F

5th March 2011, 10:04 PM	#8
mrwizard Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 102	Hello everybody, USB microscopes can be really fun and may even be sufficient for the task at hand but everthing written on the box should be taken with a containership-load of salt. Here is an article that explains some of the principal constraints http://www.msscweb.org/public/articl...nification.pdf My guess the optical magnification of most inexpensive usb-microscopes is in the range of 20x-30x. Another concern is the Depth of Field which is likely very small. Again, these things are fun might be sufficient for what Gav wants to achieve. I personally own a Lomo MBS-10 microscope that i use regulary for hobby purposes. The thing is build like a tank and has good optical components. Still I don't get much more out of it than 100x. I wouldn't even dare to compare it to the modern scientific microscopes found at most universities. @Gav: Don't buy any microscope if you don't plan to use it regulary. Best Regards, Thilo