eBay Toss of the Dice (NEW PICS!)

David · 16th February 2011, 05:18 PM

Thanks for the comments guys. I agree that for the most part the stain is not too bad here and i might well leave it alone. But i do need to get the remnants of the cosmoline off, which you may or may not notice in these photos.

I am really curious about 2 things in regards to this keris. Firstly whether others (besides Rick and i) also see this as an older Bali form. It seems that many of the antique keris we see from this area are late 19th-early 20th, but this one seems older to me. I have not found nearly as much information of the Bali keris in this regard as, say, the Javanese keris, but this keris has features which are somewhat unlike most late 19th C examples i have seen.
Secondly i am really interested in when and why this (i presume) newer dress form developed. We have certainly all seen the cheaper examples of this sheath, but was it always intended for tourist sales or is there some kind of cultural origin to the form? As i remarked earlier, i have never seen any really old sarongs in this form so i would imagine it did not come about until sometime in the 20th century. This would possibly put such information into the living memory of some, unlike so many other aspects of the keris that have been lost to time.

Henk · 16th February 2011, 06:02 PM

David, what a lovely keris. Worth gambling, i should say.

About the dress i'm not completely sure where i got it from, but i do remember that it is said or written that this type of dress was used to wear the keris for barong dance. If it was developed from a cultural event or that it was used to impress those who traveled for pleasure, i don't know.

David · 16th February 2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

David, what a lovely keris. Worth gambling, i should say.

About the dress i'm not completely sure where i got it from, but i do remember that it is said or written that this type of dress was used to wear the keris for barong dance. If it was developed from a cultural event or that it was used to impress those who traveled for pleasure, i don't know.

Yes Henk, i read the same somewhere as well, but i have no idea where and would love to find some source material on the subject.

Laowang · 17th February 2011, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Yes Henk, i read the same somewhere as well, but i have no idea where and would love to find some source material on the subject.

There is a reference in Frey, The Kris (third edition), page 74, caption for figure 31 which shows a similar scabbard and describes it as a 'carved wood Barong dance kris'. Beyond this I haven't personally seen any references.

Congratulations on a fine blade for a very fine price. Sometimes Ebay gambles do pay off.

David · 17th February 2011, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laowang

There is a reference in Frey, The Kris (third edition), page 74, caption for figure 31 which shows a similar scabbard and describes it as a 'carved wood Barong dance kris'. Beyond this I haven't personally seen any references.

Congratulations on a fine blade for a very fine price. Sometimes Ebay gambles do pay off.

Thank you Laowang. Come to think of it i do recall seeing this particular reference before. Unfortunately, in all the images i have ever seen of the Barong Dance the keris are already unsheathed so there is no telling if there is anything to this idea.

A. G. Maisey · 17th February 2011, 09:34 PM

Here is an image of a heavily carved scabbard that is in the Neka Museum in Ubud. The material is ivory. The display tag does not give any information on specific purpose nor use.

I would be extremely cautious in accepting any information provided in Edward Frey's book on keris. The photos are good and provided the captions are cross checked, these photos can be quite useful for ID purposes, as they are clear and distinct and cover a range of styles.

Laowang · 17th February 2011, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Here is an image of a heavily carved scabbard that is in the Neka Museum in Ubud. The material is ivory. The display tag does not give any information on specific purpose nor use.

I would be extremely cautious in accepting any information provided in Edward Frey's book on keris. The photos are good and provided the captions are cross checked, these photos can be quite useful for ID purposes, as they are clear and distinct and cover a range of styles.

Ha, ha, ha. Agreed. My mention of Frey's attribution is certainly not an endorsement that he is correct.

David · 18th February 2011, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I would be extremely cautious in accepting any information provided in Edward Frey's book on keris. The photos are good and provided the captions are cross checked, these photos can be quite useful for ID purposes, as they are clear and distinct and cover a range of styles.

I think we can all agree with this. I was just trying to determine where i had heard the story, not whether it was true or not.

What do you think in terms of age speculation on the blade Alan. So little has been written in English specifically on the Balinese keris and identifying it's various dhapurs through the centuries. Any ideas?
I am also curious about the very simple kinatah. I don't get the feeling that this rather plain and unpretentious application was done to try to raise the sale potential of this keris. It's just too simple and wasn't even mentioned in the sellers description.

17th February 2011, 09:34 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Here is an image of a heavily carved scabbard that is in the Neka Museum in Ubud. The material is ivory. The display tag does not give any information on specific purpose nor use. I would be extremely cautious in accepting any information provided in Edward Frey's book on keris. The photos are good and provided the captions are cross checked, these photos can be quite useful for ID purposes, as they are clear and distinct and cover a range of styles. Attached Images

16th February 2011, 05:18 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Thanks for the comments guys. I agree that for the most part the stain is not too bad here and i might well leave it alone. But i do need to get the remnants of the cosmoline off, which you may or may not notice in these photos. I am really curious about 2 things in regards to this keris. Firstly whether others (besides Rick and i) also see this as an older Bali form. It seems that many of the antique keris we see from this area are late 19th-early 20th, but this one seems older to me. I have not found nearly as much information of the Bali keris in this regard as, say, the Javanese keris, but this keris has features which are somewhat unlike most late 19th C examples i have seen. Secondly i am really interested in when and why this (i presume) newer dress form developed. We have certainly all seen the cheaper examples of this sheath, but was it always intended for tourist sales or is there some kind of cultural origin to the form? As i remarked earlier, i have never seen any really old sarongs in this form so i would imagine it did not come about until sometime in the 20th century. This would possibly put such information into the living memory of some, unlike so many other aspects of the keris that have been lost to time.

16th February 2011, 06:02 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	David, what a lovely keris. Worth gambling, i should say. About the dress i'm not completely sure where i got it from, but i do remember that it is said or written that this type of dress was used to wear the keris for barong dance. If it was developed from a cultural event or that it was used to impress those who traveled for pleasure, i don't know.