eBay Toss of the Dice (NEW PICS!)

Atlantia · 16th February 2011, 01:18 AM

I think it looks great. What will you use to restain it when you get around to it?

David · 16th February 2011, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

I think it looks great. What will you use to restain it when you get around to it?

Warangan....Arsenic and lime.

Rick · 16th February 2011, 03:28 AM

Doesn't look like it needs a re-staining, David ..

Or are you just that good w/Photoshop, Bro ?

Looks old !

David · 16th February 2011, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Doesn't look like it needs a re-staining, David ..

Or are you just that good w/Photoshop, Bro ?

Looks old !

Maybe not for now. As i said, some of the cosmoline remains and at the very least i need to get that off. The current stain isn't too bad, but it is uneven, especially around the edges as i don't think this has pamor wengkon...

Not bad for 60 bucks, eh?

Rick · 16th February 2011, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Maybe not for now. As i said, some of the cosmoline remains and at the very least i need to get that off. The current stain isn't too bad, but it is uneven, especially around the edges as i don't think this has pamor wengkon...

Not bad for 60 bucks, eh?

Not bad at all !

Isn't wengkon an unbroken line standing back from the edge of the slorok following the entire profile of the blade ?

Whatever the pamor; it is delightful .

David · 16th February 2011, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Isn't wengkon an unbroken line standing back from the edge of the slorok following the entire profile of the blade ?

Well yes Rick, that's my point, that it is not. The stain is just worn away from the blade's edge. It doesn't look too bad, but it should probably go all the way to the edges. BTW, this is on of the most edge sharp keris i own. You could practically shave with it...
Any thoughts on the origin of this sheath type? Was it once an excepted form that became more "commercial" in the latter part of the 20th century. I don't think i have ever seen an old version of this form. I do believe i once read somewhere that it might be related to the theater (wayang).

Jussi M. · 16th February 2011, 05:46 AM

Bloody hell!

Congratulations!

Thanks,

J.

Atlantia · 16th February 2011, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Warangan....Arsenic and lime.

LOL, I was assuming that there was an alternative to arsenic!
Is it available to the public in the USA?

David · 16th February 2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

LOL, I was assuming that there was an alternative to arsenic!
Is it available to the public in the USA?

Many people have tried alternative, some more successful than others, but i am of the opinion that the traditional method is indeed the best.
I got some arsenic trioxide pre-9/11. It wasn't too difficult, or maybe i just got lucky. I had to find a company that was capable of buying from the big lab companies and found one local to me that was willing to do it for me. The rules may be stricter today, but i still have a fair supply available as a little goes a long way.

David · 16th February 2011, 07:43 PM

I knew i had one more image that i wanted to post, a close-up of the hilt. Again, no great work of art, but it does adhere to the basic form well clearly showing all the little insect bits, legs, antennae and wings that we should see on the kocet-kocetan hilt.

GIO · 19th February 2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

LOL, I was assuming that there was an alternative to arsenic!
Is it available to the public in the USA?

I also use warangan, but was told that somebody gets very good results with iron chloride (or iron sulphur ?). I Don't remember well, sorry. I have seen a couple of blades etched this way and the result was perfect.
Maybe other friends are better informed.

A. G. Maisey · 20th February 2011, 02:30 AM

OK --- right spot:-

Yes David, I am aware of your high level of knowledge of cultural and historic background in respect of matters affecting the keris, however, although my response is addressed to you, it has been written for all those people who read our discussions here, and many, if not most of those people do not possess a similar level knowledge to yourself.

Yes, collectors do have their own sets of values, which tend to vary according to the base from which that group of collectors has sprung. Very often I find that the values of collectors are directed at the idea and culture of "collecting", rather than the ideas and culture which pertain to the objects that they collect. This remark is not exclusive to the collecting of the keris, but can also be identified in many other fields of collecting.

Regarding the slightly rounded form of the gandhik, I have seen this in a number of keris from both Jawa and Bali, and from various eras. I personally read it as stylistic variation that does not necessarily attach to any particular era or classification, but may be indicative of the work of a particular maker. In fact, in one of the keris that I made myself, I attempted a similar treatment of the gandhik, but it was not particularly successful.

Incidentally, the sogokan in the first keris you have shown from the Oriental Arms source appears to have everything that a well executed sogokan should have. This is very nice work.

David · 20th February 2011, 06:40 AM

Well Alan, i've read a few books. Hardly gives me a high level of knowledge, but enough for some basic understandings.

I am glad that you can see what i was talking about now even if it isn't a clue to anything in particular. Just something i was noticing, but then, as Freud is mused to have said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

And i do agree, that first one from Ari's gallery does indeed have a beautiful sogokan...

A. G. Maisey · 20th February 2011, 07:23 AM

Its better than nice David, its excellent.

Which causes me to think that perhaps the gonjo may have been replaced on this keris. Not recently, but a long time ago, as the fit to the tungkakan is nowhere near the same level of craftsmanship as is displayed in the rest of the sorsoran.

Atlantia · 20th February 2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

I also use warangan, but was told that somebody gets very good results with iron chloride (or iron sulphur ?). I Don't remember well, sorry. I have seen a couple of blades etched this way and the result was perfect.
Maybe other friends are better informed.

Hi Gio,

Iron Chloride would be a much safer option. Thanks for the info.
Best
Gene

Sajen · 20th February 2011, 04:23 PM

Hello David,

here are two Bali keris examples from my collection which have also a belly at the gandik area. Sorry for picture quality, I have taken the pictures just before with flash light. The first two pictures are the same keris.

Regards,

Detlef

BluErf · 22nd February 2011, 03:34 AM

Whoa, the blade came out nicely after your light cleaning. The state of stain does make a big difference in the aesthetics of a keris blade.

asomotif · 16th February 2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Warangan....Arsenic and lime.

Hello David,

A very nice blade. the dress is not my style, but looks like a harmonious ensemble.

But why stain the blade ?
This looks like a bali stain to me. Are you able to get the same effect by restaining it ? Or will you create a javanese rough surface stain ?

IMO, I would leave it and keep it well oiled.

Best regards,
Willem

David · 16th February 2011, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

But why stain the blade ?
This looks like a bali stain to me. Are you able to get the same effect by restaining it ? Or will you create a javanese rough surface stain ?

IMO, I would leave it and keep it well oiled.

I do address this question in posts #15, 17 and 20 and the bottom lineis that i might very well just leave it as is.

To answer your other question i have indeed managed to stain Bali blades in the past and maintain a fairly smooth and polished appearance on the surface. If i were to stain this blade i would certain attempt to maintain the finish in this manner.
If you look at the very first image of the blade close-up you can see a discoloring of the blade. I think this is the remains of the cosmoline which completely covered this blade when i received it. So at the very least it is due for another bath in some mineral spirits down the line.
As for the dress i'd have to say that it would not be most people's style per se. But considering the price (and the fact that it of a higher quality than most of it's ilk) i think i can learn to live with it...

16th February 2011, 07:43 PM	#10
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I knew i had one more image that i wanted to post, a close-up of the hilt. Again, no great work of art, but it does adhere to the basic form well clearly showing all the little insect bits, legs, antennae and wings that we should see on the kocet-kocetan hilt. Attached Images

20th February 2011, 04:23 PM	#16
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hello David, here are two Bali keris examples from my collection which have also a belly at the gandik area. Sorry for picture quality, I have taken the pictures just before with flash light. The first two pictures are the same keris. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

16th February 2011, 01:18 AM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	I think it looks great. What will you use to restain it when you get around to it?

16th February 2011, 03:28 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Doesn't look like it needs a re-staining, David .. Or are you just that good w/Photoshop, Bro ? Looks old !

16th February 2011, 05:46 AM	#7
Jussi M. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 235	Bloody hell! Congratulations! Thanks, J.

20th February 2011, 02:30 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	OK --- right spot:- Yes David, I am aware of your high level of knowledge of cultural and historic background in respect of matters affecting the keris, however, although my response is addressed to you, it has been written for all those people who read our discussions here, and many, if not most of those people do not possess a similar level knowledge to yourself. Yes, collectors do have their own sets of values, which tend to vary according to the base from which that group of collectors has sprung. Very often I find that the values of collectors are directed at the idea and culture of "collecting", rather than the ideas and culture which pertain to the objects that they collect. This remark is not exclusive to the collecting of the keris, but can also be identified in many other fields of collecting. Regarding the slightly rounded form of the gandhik, I have seen this in a number of keris from both Jawa and Bali, and from various eras. I personally read it as stylistic variation that does not necessarily attach to any particular era or classification, but may be indicative of the work of a particular maker. In fact, in one of the keris that I made myself, I attempted a similar treatment of the gandhik, but it was not particularly successful. Incidentally, the sogokan in the first keris you have shown from the Oriental Arms source appears to have everything that a well executed sogokan should have. This is very nice work.

20th February 2011, 06:40 AM	#13
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Well Alan, i've read a few books. Hardly gives me a high level of knowledge, but enough for some basic understandings. I am glad that you can see what i was talking about now even if it isn't a clue to anything in particular. Just something i was noticing, but then, as Freud is mused to have said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And i do agree, that first one from Ari's gallery does indeed have a beautiful sogokan...

20th February 2011, 07:23 AM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Its better than nice David, its excellent. Which causes me to think that perhaps the gonjo may have been replaced on this keris. Not recently, but a long time ago, as the fit to the tungkakan is nowhere near the same level of craftsmanship as is displayed in the rest of the sorsoran.

22nd February 2011, 03:34 AM	#17
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Whoa, the blade came out nicely after your light cleaning. The state of stain does make a big difference in the aesthetics of a keris blade.