Translation Assistance Requested for Kaskara Hilt

A.alnakkas · 11th February 2011, 12:44 AM

hmm it says : العدل و سد. means: Justice and ???. the second word is "Sad" which means something that blocks. Makes no sense

DaveS · 11th February 2011, 02:40 AM

Chris: Thinking about it again i seem to recall years ago that in one of Fagans
catalogues there was a kaskara with a bone handle. For all we know, this
might be the same one, as some of these pieces do seem to travel around
between collectors..........Dave.

laEspadaAncha · 11th February 2011, 03:00 AM

Hello Dave,

Interesting indeed. I have had an eye out for one for some time, and after reading a fascinating thread here last year (and in particular the contributions by Jim, Tim, and Iain), have been hoping and waiting for one covered in thuluth script (Khartoum is one of my all-time favorite movies). However, luck had not prevailed until this one more-or-less fell into my lap this last month.

It would truly be fortunate to hear form someone who has the catalog in which you seem to recall a similar (or same?) bone-handled kaskara, who could either confirm it is the same one or post pictures of it for comparison.

*****

Abdullatif - Thank you once again for your assistance in translating the inscription. When you say that the contextual use of "sad" refers to "something that blocks," do you mean in the literal sense, or in a more metaphorical sense, i.e., it reverses the meaning of the word or words with which it appears?

Can you think of a loose translation in which "Sad" - or as you state - "something that blocks" along with "Justice" might make sense? Maybe it's a colloquial usage?

*****

Regards,

Chris

A.alnakkas · 11th February 2011, 07:48 AM

Hey Dave,

I have been thinking of this all day. Nope, still makes no sense. I'll check around maybe someone will know a connection between the two.

It could be related to Sudanese accent which in that case, i can offer little assistance.

laEspadaAncha · 12th February 2011, 04:21 AM

I hope the title didn't exclude the VS community at large from commenting on the kaskara. I am looking forward to - and asking for - input from others regarding the sword...

In particular, given the thuluth script, would you consider this to be a Mahdist era exmaple? To what part of the Sudan would you attribute this?

Regards,

Chris

DaveS · 12th February 2011, 05:21 AM

Chris: I looked high and low for those old catalogues. Haven't been able to
find them yet. But i'm sure i did see a kaskara in one of Fagans old books
that had a bone handle. But i will keep looking. You've got my curiosity up.
Dave.

laEspadaAncha · 12th February 2011, 04:54 PM

Hi Dave,

Thank you for searching nonetheless.

Any thoughts or estimations regarding age and/or particular area of attribution? I assume it's Sudanese, but am of the understanding there is some degree of variability in form from region to region.

Regards,

Chris

Dom · 8th January 2013, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey Dave,

I have been thinking of this all day. Nope, still makes no sense. I'll check around maybe someone will know a connection between the two.

It could be related to Sudanese accent which in that case, i can offer little assistance.

I come to rescue ... my Bro. Abdallatif

Lotfi, you're correct when you're mentioning
"still makes no sense"
Taghrid has got the translation;
"ASSAD" either "LION" and "EL ADGLE" either "THE JUSTICE"

the problem is ... there is no meaning

- it's a "literal translation", and not the translation of the meaning
- it's cant be a name
- Taghrid suggest that a part of the script is missing

à +

Dom

laEspadaAncha · 8th January 2013, 12:48 AM

Hello Dom,

Thank you for asking your 'other half' to have a look...

This is the same translation as provided by a friend of mine some time after starting this thread. Unfortunately, I can find no contextual reference to whom this may have been in reference to, though I hope it might be of some use to Mefidk in his efforts to research the origin of the thuluth-covered kaskaras.

Cheers,

Chris

12th February 2011, 05:21 AM	#6
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	kaskara handle Chris: I looked high and low for those old catalogues. Haven't been able to find them yet. But i'm sure i did see a kaskara in one of Fagans old books that had a bone handle. But i will keep looking. You've got my curiosity up. Dave.

11th February 2011, 12:44 AM	#1
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	hmm it says : العدل و سد. means: Justice and ???. the second word is "Sad" which means something that blocks. Makes no sense

11th February 2011, 02:40 AM	#2
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Chris: Thinking about it again i seem to recall years ago that in one of Fagans catalogues there was a kaskara with a bone handle. For all we know, this might be the same one, as some of these pieces do seem to travel around between collectors..........Dave.

11th February 2011, 03:00 AM	#3
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hello Dave, Interesting indeed. I have had an eye out for one for some time, and after reading a fascinating thread here last year (and in particular the contributions by Jim, Tim, and Iain), have been hoping and waiting for one covered in thuluth script (Khartoum is one of my all-time favorite movies). However, luck had not prevailed until this one more-or-less fell into my lap this last month. It would truly be fortunate to hear form someone who has the catalog in which you seem to recall a similar (or same?) bone-handled kaskara, who could either confirm it is the same one or post pictures of it for comparison. *** Abdullatif - Thank you once again for your assistance in translating the inscription. When you say that the contextual use of "sad" refers to "something that blocks," do you mean in the literal sense, or in a more metaphorical sense, i.e., it reverses the meaning of the word or words with which it appears? Can you think of a loose translation in which "Sad" - or as you state - "something that blocks" along with "Justice" might make sense? Maybe it's a colloquial usage? *** Regards, Chris

11th February 2011, 07:48 AM	#4
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hey Dave, I have been thinking of this all day. Nope, still makes no sense. I'll check around maybe someone will know a connection between the two. It could be related to Sudanese accent which in that case, i can offer little assistance.

12th February 2011, 04:21 AM	#5
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	I hope the title didn't exclude the VS community at large from commenting on the kaskara. I am looking forward to - and asking for - input from others regarding the sword... In particular, given the thuluth script, would you consider this to be a Mahdist era exmaple? To what part of the Sudan would you attribute this? Regards, Chris

12th February 2011, 04:54 PM	#7
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Dave, Thank you for searching nonetheless. Any thoughts or estimations regarding age and/or particular area of attribution? I assume it's Sudanese, but am of the understanding there is some degree of variability in form from region to region. Regards, Chris

8th January 2013, 12:48 AM	#9
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hello Dom, Thank you for asking your 'other half' to have a look... This is the same translation as provided by a friend of mine some time after starting this thread. Unfortunately, I can find no contextual reference to whom this may have been in reference to, though I hope it might be of some use to Mefidk in his efforts to research the origin of the thuluth-covered kaskaras. Cheers, Chris