Javanese machete??

marto suwignyo · 30th June 2005, 12:54 PM

Oh yes, something else that I almost forgot to mention, but first, to all those who may read this and who will undoubtedly be bored senseless by discussion of language in a Forum supposedly devoted to discussion of weaponry, I most humbly apologise for my part in the generation of this boredom.

In Modern Javanese, that is Javanese as it has developed since the 17th century, the word "yoni" does not, and never did mean the female counterpart of the lingga. Additionally,the word "yoni" is not a part of the Indonesian lexicon.

In Modern Javanese the meaning of "yoni" is "to have magical power, or supernatural power, or devine power"; it can have secondary meanings of "excellent", "distinguished", "sacred", or "to have high knowledge". Usage of the word is literary, it is not a part of ngoko or Krama Inggil.

In Old Javanese one of the meanings of "yoni" was "uterus or womb", but it had alternate meanings of "place of birth", and "origin", it also could be used to mean "perfect".

The word "yoni" has its origin in Sanscrit where it has well over a dozen meanings, including "vulva, womb, birthplace".

The entry for "yoni" in Ensiklopedi is clear enough, and it most certainly does not carry the implications attributed to it by The Most Honoured Kiai. It is very difficult for me to understand how a native speaker of Indonesian could give the interpretation to Pak Bambang`s text that has been given to it by Kiai Carita, whom we all know lives in a Javanese village, 30 km from Sragen.

Billman · 8th November 2010, 09:47 AM

Hi

Just joined the forum, so a few years late in replying to this post. However, all information is potentially useful - so here is my contribution... Based on my collecting of mostly European billhooks for over 40 years, and a collection of some 4000 + from over 20 countries....

A sickle is generally taken to be a tool to cut grass-like vegetation, and a billhook for woody growth. But hybrid tools for cutting heavy grasses, e.g rushes for thatching, or small wood, e.g osiers for basket making, also exist. So is a small heavy curved sickle really a billhook, or vice versa??

In France we find 'faucillon' or 'faucille à bois' - literally a sickle for wood. To compound matters further, although serpe is the general translation for billhook, dialect names such as gouet, goyarde, poudo, vousge (and many others) exist.

Many French words come from the latin - a faux can be a scythe, a sickle or a bilhook - usually an adjective describes its use, e.g. faux arboria (wood sickle = billhook) - french uses a similar format, a 'serpe de taiilandier' is a cooper's tool, called in some regions a cochoir or a cauchoir. A 'serpette à tailler' is a small pruning billhook, in some regions sickle shaped...

Americans often call a billhook a fascine knife - in the UK it is known as a bill, a hand bill, a hedging bill, a pruning bill, a broom hook, a spar hook etc depending upon usage and where it comes from....

Thus I guess there is no hard and fast rule ref 'arit gedhe' (big sickle) or 'bendho' - what one region call it may differ from another, the shape of the tool similarly (there are several hundred regional variations for French, English and Italian billhooks - not including sickles - one French manufacturer, Talabot, in their 1930's catalogue boasted they held patterns for over 3000, and would make any shape upon submission of a paper pattern or template)..

What hope then is there for a positive identification of what a tool is called or where it was made... Ditto tools that may have also been used as weapons....

If you have any images of locally made billhook type tools please post or send by PM - if you have a local name, and can ID the location of manufacturer or the usage, even better...

Henk · 9th November 2010, 07:32 PM

Billman,

Thank you for your contribution and identification of my javanese or even indian machete.
I googled on billhook. Never heard of that word before. Wow...... just selected pictures. And there it is.......

8th November 2010, 09:47 AM	#2
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Hi Just joined the forum, so a few years late in replying to this post. However, all information is potentially useful - so here is my contribution... Based on my collecting of mostly European billhooks for over 40 years, and a collection of some 4000 + from over 20 countries.... A sickle is generally taken to be a tool to cut grass-like vegetation, and a billhook for woody growth. But hybrid tools for cutting heavy grasses, e.g rushes for thatching, or small wood, e.g osiers for basket making, also exist. So is a small heavy curved sickle really a billhook, or vice versa?? In France we find 'faucillon' or 'faucille à bois' - literally a sickle for wood. To compound matters further, although serpe is the general translation for billhook, dialect names such as gouet, goyarde, poudo, vousge (and many others) exist. Many French words come from the latin - a faux can be a scythe, a sickle or a bilhook - usually an adjective describes its use, e.g. faux arboria (wood sickle = billhook) - french uses a similar format, a 'serpe de taiilandier' is a cooper's tool, called in some regions a cochoir or a cauchoir. A 'serpette à tailler' is a small pruning billhook, in some regions sickle shaped... Americans often call a billhook a fascine knife - in the UK it is known as a bill, a hand bill, a hedging bill, a pruning bill, a broom hook, a spar hook etc depending upon usage and where it comes from.... Thus I guess there is no hard and fast rule ref 'arit gedhe' (big sickle) or 'bendho' - what one region call it may differ from another, the shape of the tool similarly (there are several hundred regional variations for French, English and Italian billhooks - not including sickles - one French manufacturer, Talabot, in their 1930's catalogue boasted they held patterns for over 3000, and would make any shape upon submission of a paper pattern or template).. What hope then is there for a positive identification of what a tool is called or where it was made... Ditto tools that may have also been used as weapons.... If you have any images of locally made billhook type tools please post or send by PM - if you have a local name, and can ID the location of manufacturer or the usage, even better... Last edited by Billman; 8th November 2010 at 06:59 PM. Reason: Spelling and Punctuation

30th June 2005, 12:54 PM	#1
marto suwignyo Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 52	Oh yes, something else that I almost forgot to mention, but first, to all those who may read this and who will undoubtedly be bored senseless by discussion of language in a Forum supposedly devoted to discussion of weaponry, I most humbly apologise for my part in the generation of this boredom. In Modern Javanese, that is Javanese as it has developed since the 17th century, the word "yoni" does not, and never did mean the female counterpart of the lingga. Additionally,the word "yoni" is not a part of the Indonesian lexicon. In Modern Javanese the meaning of "yoni" is "to have magical power, or supernatural power, or devine power"; it can have secondary meanings of "excellent", "distinguished", "sacred", or "to have high knowledge". Usage of the word is literary, it is not a part of ngoko or Krama Inggil. In Old Javanese one of the meanings of "yoni" was "uterus or womb", but it had alternate meanings of "place of birth", and "origin", it also could be used to mean "perfect". The word "yoni" has its origin in Sanscrit where it has well over a dozen meanings, including "vulva, womb, birthplace". The entry for "yoni" in Ensiklopedi is clear enough, and it most certainly does not carry the implications attributed to it by The Most Honoured Kiai. It is very difficult for me to understand how a native speaker of Indonesian could give the interpretation to Pak Bambang`s text that has been given to it by Kiai Carita, whom we all know lives in a Javanese village, 30 km from Sragen.

9th November 2010, 07:32 PM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Billman, Thank you for your contribution and identification of my javanese or even indian machete. I googled on billhook. Never heard of that word before. Wow...... just selected pictures. And there it is.......