eBay MORO KRIS WOOTZ??

Federico · 20th December 2004, 02:46 PM

Are the white specs just dust in the scan, or is that actually in the steel?

Ferguson · 20th December 2004, 08:40 PM

A poor picture of a Tulwar with a wootz blade.
Steve

ariel · 20th December 2004, 10:02 PM

Yup: THIS is wootz.
There is a big difference between crystalline damascus (wootz) the beauty of which depends on a narrow range of impurities (wolfram, most likely) and heating/cooling temperatures and mechanical damascus that is constructed by combining different steels into a single blade and then polishing/etching the surface.
Wootz is a native Indian product. As such it was used by Indo-Persian bladesmiths as well as by the Persia proper masters who obtained raw materials from India.

Wootz ingots were rarely bought by the Caucasian and Ottoman bladesmiths and this is the reason why wootz is practically confined to India/Persia. I have never seen real wootz outside of that area.
Which kind of Damascus was superior? Mechanically it made very little difference for the average warrior; esthetically it depended on the personal taste; urban legends attributed incredible properties to either variety (such as " sliced through a nail" which is exactly what the Ginsu people are telling us about their kitchen knives) but the proof is lacking in most of the cases.
Ultimately, it is the swordsman that makes the difference, not the sword.

Battara · 20th December 2004, 10:42 PM

Hesitant to call my blade wootz, yet hesitant to call this pattern welded only. The white flecks are the scanner glass surface. It is not etched like the Javanese, yet not polished like the Japanese. In any case, it is the most heavily laminiated steel I have seen on a PI/Moro piece.

RSWORD · 21st December 2004, 02:59 AM

Jose

Having the privilege of handling that lovely gunong of yours, I can tell you it is not wootz. Rather, I believe it is a type of pattern welding, possibly 3 plate, not unlike Chinese sanmai.

Battara · 22nd December 2004, 04:54 AM

Oh I agree. Having some wootz pieces from Turkey and Persia, Wootz is a little different. Though it does look a little wootzish. Many tulwars have incredible lamination, though not that same as wootz. The first picture is from a Kurdish jambiya I have (from Artzi

) with Persian wootz, the second is a Turkish jambiya (again from Artzi

) with Turkish wootz. As you can see, there are differences in the multiple lamination technique and wootz, though similar in some cases:

Mare Rosu · 18th January 2005, 01:09 PM

quote by RICK:
"I'll bet Mr. Pendray could make a beautiful contemporary kris blade from wootz ..............

"

RICK;
I found this picture of the Kris that Al Pendray made out of his wootz.
Sorry for the image size but it is all I could find.

I have been searching for it for a while. It has a jade handle that was made by someone other than
Mr. Pendray but do not know just who, for someone in Hawaii if I remember correctly, will keep on searching.

Rick

I found it!

along with this writeup.
The price may not be allowed, if so Andrew or RICK remove it.

Sculpted Jade
and Wootz Kris
"An exquisite collaboration between Broadwell and Alfred Pendray. Features Pendray's Wootz damascus steel forged to shape on the 20" blade, including the raised center ridge. Exceptional forging! Jade handle with bronze fittings. All sculpting and carving, as well as all blade grinding and finishing, done by Broadwell. By far the most difficult and time consuming art project to date, this magnificent piece was commissioned as a showpiece for a private collection."

Similar Piece: $8000
Photos: Point Seven,
S Broadwell

22nd December 2004, 04:54 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Oh I agree. Having some wootz pieces from Turkey and Persia, Wootz is a little different. Though it does look a little wootzish. Many tulwars have incredible lamination, though not that same as wootz. The first picture is from a Kurdish jambiya I have (from Artzi ) with Persian wootz, the second is a Turkish jambiya (again from Artzi ) with Turkish wootz. As you can see, there are differences in the multiple lamination technique and wootz, though similar in some cases: Attached Images

18th January 2005, 01:09 PM	#7
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	Pendray Wootz Kris quote by RICK: "I'll bet Mr. Pendray could make a beautiful contemporary kris blade from wootz .............. " RICK; I found this picture of the Kris that Al Pendray made out of his wootz. Sorry for the image size but it is all I could find. I have been searching for it for a while. It has a jade handle that was made by someone other than Mr. Pendray but do not know just who, for someone in Hawaii if I remember correctly, will keep on searching. Rick I found it! along with this writeup. The price may not be allowed, if so Andrew or RICK remove it. Sculpted Jade and Wootz Kris "An exquisite collaboration between Broadwell and Alfred Pendray. Features Pendray's Wootz damascus steel forged to shape on the 20" blade, including the raised center ridge. Exceptional forging! Jade handle with bronze fittings. All sculpting and carving, as well as all blade grinding and finishing, done by Broadwell. By far the most difficult and time consuming art project to date, this magnificent piece was commissioned as a showpiece for a private collection." Similar Piece: $8000 Photos: Point Seven, S Broadwell Attached Images Last edited by Mare Rosu; 18th January 2005 at 05:15 PM.

20th December 2004, 02:46 PM	#1
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Are the white specs just dust in the scan, or is that actually in the steel?

20th December 2004, 08:40 PM	#2
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	A poor picture of a Tulwar with a wootz blade. Steve

20th December 2004, 10:02 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yup: THIS is wootz. There is a big difference between crystalline damascus (wootz) the beauty of which depends on a narrow range of impurities (wolfram, most likely) and heating/cooling temperatures and mechanical damascus that is constructed by combining different steels into a single blade and then polishing/etching the surface. Wootz is a native Indian product. As such it was used by Indo-Persian bladesmiths as well as by the Persia proper masters who obtained raw materials from India. Wootz ingots were rarely bought by the Caucasian and Ottoman bladesmiths and this is the reason why wootz is practically confined to India/Persia. I have never seen real wootz outside of that area. Which kind of Damascus was superior? Mechanically it made very little difference for the average warrior; esthetically it depended on the personal taste; urban legends attributed incredible properties to either variety (such as " sliced through a nail" which is exactly what the Ginsu people are telling us about their kitchen knives) but the proof is lacking in most of the cases. Ultimately, it is the swordsman that makes the difference, not the sword.

20th December 2004, 10:42 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Hesitant to call my blade wootz, yet hesitant to call this pattern welded only. The white flecks are the scanner glass surface. It is not etched like the Javanese, yet not polished like the Japanese. In any case, it is the most heavily laminiated steel I have seen on a PI/Moro piece.

21st December 2004, 02:59 AM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Jose Having the privilege of handling that lovely gunong of yours, I can tell you it is not wootz. Rather, I believe it is a type of pattern welding, possibly 3 plate, not unlike Chinese sanmai.