Federalist sword

M ELEY · 30th December 2010, 08:08 AM

Oh, I see I misread an earlier post. You took pics and no scanner use. Wow, that's one good camera.

M ELEY · 31st December 2010, 07:59 AM

http://www.ushistory.org/carpentersh...calltoarms.htm
http://www.thayeramericana.com/back/.../research7.pdf
http://massmoments.org/moment.cfm?mid=275
Google search 'A Case for Stability' By Samuel Crowthers (google books)

My point being, if all of these things were being made in well-known Philadelphia foundries in the period we speak of with established provenance, why not sword hilts? Perhaps they still just haven't come to light. After all, a few web searches reveil large cast andirons, intricate cabinet furnishings, large bells, and mention of weapon fixtures. The Paul Revere article talks about the brass fittings for the U.S.S. Constitution being made in 1797. I forgot a major point by Bazelon in his article. He had mentioned the large flux of foreign craftsmen coming into America at this time (pointing out a Scot that might have been making blades along with Rose and Prahl just as one example). If the supposed skill of working in brass was absent with the American craftsmen (an opinion I would challenge regardless of this sword), perhaps one of those craftsmen working in the Philly area was responsible, much like the Houndslow German craftsmen in Great Britain? Just another thought...

Hotspur · 1st January 2011, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Perhaps they still just haven't come to light

Bingo

I mention Prahl making/casting gun fittings in an earlier post but at the same time and in the period being discussed, no mention there of the cast hilts. Still, leaving the door open for the source of the seemingly holy grail. Also no exacting description of the revolution sword contract. No confirmation of the shop doing the casting for the cast doggie grip and pommel shown in Bazelon's editing of the Pennsylvania collection book with no revision of that book after the 1992 article which I am still eager to read and better agree with or rationalize in supposition.

Happy New Year

GC

M ELEY · 1st January 2011, 05:13 AM

Now I see your point of caution. Not a denial, simply a waiting for more evidence. Makes perfect sense and still leaves room for exciting new developments in this area of study.

Happy New Year to all at the Forum!
Mark

M ELEY · 8th February 2011, 07:44 AM

In the newest Man-At -Arms magazine this month is an excellent article on the so-called Prahl eagle head swords with many of the same remarks and points brought up in our discussion. Specifically, the fact that many of these early eagle-head types had imported blades, but the jury is out on whether the hilts (one piece affairs of solid brass with 'ugly' eagle and 10 sided grips) were made in Philly or elsewhere. As these swords were made for the militias, the author of the article implies that most of these, IRON hilted included, were probably either individual or militia private purchase. Interesting that these Prahl-types had the same characteristics as our lion-hilt (solid brass one piece cast figural hilt, some crude and others more refined, private purchase, many with the 4 and 6 slot guards). Great article, by the way...

Hotspur · 12th February 2011, 02:14 AM

Thanks for an update. The author of the article was whom, you might mention?

I don't subscribe, so I have to live vicariously with what any may care to share. This quarter's budget just ate up a back up machine and in finding another book to buy.

Cheers

GC

31st December 2010, 07:59 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Brass, brass and more brass... http://www.ushistory.org/carpentersh...calltoarms.htm http://www.thayeramericana.com/back/.../research7.pdf http://massmoments.org/moment.cfm?mid=275 Google search 'A Case for Stability' By Samuel Crowthers (google books) My point being, if all of these things were being made in well-known Philadelphia foundries in the period we speak of with established provenance, why not sword hilts? Perhaps they still just haven't come to light. After all, a few web searches reveil large cast andirons, intricate cabinet furnishings, large bells, and mention of weapon fixtures. The Paul Revere article talks about the brass fittings for the U.S.S. Constitution being made in 1797. I forgot a major point by Bazelon in his article. He had mentioned the large flux of foreign craftsmen coming into America at this time (pointing out a Scot that might have been making blades along with Rose and Prahl just as one example). If the supposed skill of working in brass was absent with the American craftsmen (an opinion I would challenge regardless of this sword), perhaps one of those craftsmen working in the Philly area was responsible, much like the Houndslow German craftsmen in Great Britain? Just another thought... Last edited by M ELEY; 31st December 2010 at 08:14 AM.

8th February 2011, 07:44 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	More on the brass hilts In the newest Man-At -Arms magazine this month is an excellent article on the so-called Prahl eagle head swords with many of the same remarks and points brought up in our discussion. Specifically, the fact that many of these early eagle-head types had imported blades, but the jury is out on whether the hilts (one piece affairs of solid brass with 'ugly' eagle and 10 sided grips) were made in Philly or elsewhere. As these swords were made for the militias, the author of the article implies that most of these, IRON hilted included, were probably either individual or militia private purchase. Interesting that these Prahl-types had the same characteristics as our lion-hilt (solid brass one piece cast figural hilt, some crude and others more refined, private purchase, many with the 4 and 6 slot guards). Great article, by the way...

30th December 2010, 08:08 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Oh, I see I misread an earlier post. You took pics and no scanner use. Wow, that's one good camera.

1st January 2011, 05:13 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Now I see your point of caution. Not a denial, simply a waiting for more evidence. Makes perfect sense and still leaves room for exciting new developments in this area of study. Happy New Year to all at the Forum! Mark

12th February 2011, 02:14 AM	#6
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 508	Thanks for an update. The author of the article was whom, you might mention? I don't subscribe, so I have to live vicariously with what any may care to share. This quarter's budget just ate up a back up machine and in finding another book to buy. Cheers GC