Need info from AMES catalog

celtan · 15th December 2010, 06:22 PM

Hi Jim,

Thank you very much for your time and asistance. I had also researched the IOOOF angle, but I had not found a sword identical to this one, similar yes, but not identical. The data would also be at odds with the reported finding of the sword at a French Military School during WWII.

Could I trouble you for a scan of the image found in "The American Fraternal Sword" (Hamilton, Marino and Kaplan) KM174 (p.76)..?

I am like the proverbial St. Thomas, need to see the hard data myself to feel at ease. Not the least, it also means I was taken for a ride...

Once again, thank you kindly my friend.

Merry Xmas!

Manolo

Jim McDougall · 15th December 2010, 07:28 PM

You bet Manolo! Im glad I could help. This book on "The American Fraternal Sword" is really an amazing source for these kinds of 'missing links' and anomalies. For many years these swords were pretty much tossed off as garage sale miscellania and stuff that turned up in among the frilly antiques in shops, largely ignored by serious weapons collectors.

I first saw an article in the original issue of "Man at Arms" magazine back in 1979 by John Hamilton on Masonic swords. It was so interesting and esoteric it always captivated me with all the symbolism (my favorite topic

. I filed it away for future reference and the swords moved back into the shadows (in the larger perspective, so enthusiasts easy!!).
However Joe Marino was undeterred and along with Mr. Hamilton and Jim Kaplan put together an incredibly comprehensive book and collections of these swords.

Just in researching this sword, I came across several examples of these variations of IOOF swords that are being represented as these rare Ecole de Mars swords online. It seems I had one of the IOOF examples once with the brass scaled hilt and remember not having a clue what it was, actually never thought of it until now. Usually all these type of unidentified items seem to have been regarded Confederate in those days....if nobody can identify it, it must be Confederate

I'll get the scan done later....ours which my wife was using heavily, went out valiantly in the surge of Christmas printing...so we are getting a new one as we speak.

All the best,
Jim

Jim McDougall · 16th December 2010, 01:44 AM

Here it is Manolo!! Please note, if it is in the Ames 1882 catalog, the #352 must be the wrong designator as that number is outside the groupings listed.

All the best,
Jim

Jim McDougall · 18th December 2010, 07:12 PM

Hope this has been of some help, and Im pleased to see the volume of views indicating interest in this topic. It would have been increasingly interesting if anyone else out there had encountered similar swords or had other questions.
In any case Im glad to have been given the opportunity to engage in this research, I know I learned from it.

Best regards,
Jim

15th December 2010, 06:22 PM	#1
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	Hi Jim, Thank you very much for your time and asistance. I had also researched the IOOOF angle, but I had not found a sword identical to this one, similar yes, but not identical. The data would also be at odds with the reported finding of the sword at a French Military School during WWII. Could I trouble you for a scan of the image found in "The American Fraternal Sword" (Hamilton, Marino and Kaplan) KM174 (p.76)..? I am like the proverbial St. Thomas, need to see the hard data myself to feel at ease. Not the least, it also means I was taken for a ride... Once again, thank you kindly my friend. Merry Xmas! Manolo

15th December 2010, 07:28 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,634	You bet Manolo! Im glad I could help. This book on "The American Fraternal Sword" is really an amazing source for these kinds of 'missing links' and anomalies. For many years these swords were pretty much tossed off as garage sale miscellania and stuff that turned up in among the frilly antiques in shops, largely ignored by serious weapons collectors. I first saw an article in the original issue of "Man at Arms" magazine back in 1979 by John Hamilton on Masonic swords. It was so interesting and esoteric it always captivated me with all the symbolism (my favorite topic . I filed it away for future reference and the swords moved back into the shadows (in the larger perspective, so enthusiasts easy!!). However Joe Marino was undeterred and along with Mr. Hamilton and Jim Kaplan put together an incredibly comprehensive book and collections of these swords. Just in researching this sword, I came across several examples of these variations of IOOF swords that are being represented as these rare Ecole de Mars swords online. It seems I had one of the IOOF examples once with the brass scaled hilt and remember not having a clue what it was, actually never thought of it until now. Usually all these type of unidentified items seem to have been regarded Confederate in those days....if nobody can identify it, it must be Confederate I'll get the scan done later....ours which my wife was using heavily, went out valiantly in the surge of Christmas printing...so we are getting a new one as we speak. All the best, Jim

16th December 2010, 01:44 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,634	Here it is Manolo!! Please note, if it is in the Ames 1882 catalog, the #352 must be the wrong designator as that number is outside the groupings listed. All the best, Jim Attached Images

18th December 2010, 07:12 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,634	Hope this has been of some help, and Im pleased to see the volume of views indicating interest in this topic. It would have been increasingly interesting if anyone else out there had encountered similar swords or had other questions. In any case Im glad to have been given the opportunity to engage in this research, I know I learned from it. Best regards, Jim