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Alam Shah · 11th December 2010, 02:10 AM

What I've heard from friends.. unethical dealers do purposely send new artificially aged keris to villagers, meant to trick those whom are seeking old keris in the village, hoping to find a 'sleeper'. Sometimes, these keris are left on purpose to develop rust and 'so-called' patina.. so that the outlook seems old and more believable when viewed by the seeker..

In my limited travels, I've come across some of these.. sometimes a third-party is used to promote the sale.. caveat emptor..

delor · 11th December 2010, 01:15 PM

Does someone know any example of true ancient kerises with such twisted pattern ?

Sajen · 11th December 2010, 02:33 PM

Here pictures of a lar gansir blade from my collection, unfortunately relative worn out. Note that the pamor look upwards on one side and downwards at the other side.

Jean · 11th December 2010, 07:14 PM

A recent specimen probably made in Madura.

delor · 11th December 2010, 07:55 PM

Jean, Sagen, thank you.
Jean, recent but very nice blade. Sagen, do you know if this is a recent or "ancient" blade.
In other words, my question was to know if twisted pattern is traditionally accurate.

Regards.

Sajen · 11th December 2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delor

Jean, Sagen, thank you.
Jean, recent but very nice blade. Sagen, do you know if this is a recent or "ancient" blade.
In other words, my question was to know if twisted pattern is traditionally accurate.

Regards.

Delor,

the worn out pamor and the worn edges let me think that it is an old blade. The pamor lar gangsir is a pamor what you can find on old/antique keris blades.

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 12th December 2010, 02:00 AM

Everybody seems to be focussing on whether this is an old --- or "older" --- blade, or a recent blade.

Similarly there seems to be intense interest in the pamor.

Frankly, neither of these things grab my attention.

When a blade looks like this I simply cannot tell from a photo, especially a photo on a computer screen , if it has any age or not.

As for the pamor, this particular pamor is not uncommon in keris from a number of areas.

There are several things which do interest me:-

the gandik, the kembang kacang, the distance from the pesi to the sirah cecak, the form of the pesi, the form of the luk.

If I look at these things I do not see either Lombok or recent Madura.

I tend towards a classification of Madura pre WWII, but I am simply not prepared to give any firm opinion from photos.I doubt Lombok for a classification, but that is a hesitant doubt, it is not a firm statement.

As I have already said:- it is an interesting blade.

11th December 2010, 02:10 AM	#1
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Stories What I've heard from friends.. unethical dealers do purposely send new artificially aged keris to villagers, meant to trick those whom are seeking old keris in the village, hoping to find a 'sleeper'. Sometimes, these keris are left on purpose to develop rust and 'so-called' patina.. so that the outlook seems old and more believable when viewed by the seeker.. In my limited travels, I've come across some of these.. sometimes a third-party is used to promote the sale.. caveat emptor..

11th December 2010, 02:33 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Here pictures of a lar gansir blade from my collection, unfortunately relative worn out. Note that the pamor look upwards on one side and downwards at the other side. Attached Images

11th December 2010, 07:14 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	A recent specimen probably made in Madura. Attached Images

11th December 2010, 01:15 PM	#2
delor Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Marseille - France Posts: 73	Does someone know any example of true ancient kerises with such twisted pattern ?

11th December 2010, 07:55 PM	#5
delor Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Marseille - France Posts: 73	Jean, Sagen, thank you. Jean, recent but very nice blade. Sagen, do you know if this is a recent or "ancient" blade. In other words, my question was to know if twisted pattern is traditionally accurate. Regards.

12th December 2010, 02:00 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Everybody seems to be focussing on whether this is an old --- or "older" --- blade, or a recent blade. Similarly there seems to be intense interest in the pamor. Frankly, neither of these things grab my attention. When a blade looks like this I simply cannot tell from a photo, especially a photo on a computer screen , if it has any age or not. As for the pamor, this particular pamor is not uncommon in keris from a number of areas. There are several things which do interest me:- the gandik, the kembang kacang, the distance from the pesi to the sirah cecak, the form of the pesi, the form of the luk. If I look at these things I do not see either Lombok or recent Madura. I tend towards a classification of Madura pre WWII, but I am simply not prepared to give any firm opinion from photos.I doubt Lombok for a classification, but that is a hesitant doubt, it is not a firm statement. As I have already said:- it is an interesting blade.