Unusual Arab Islamic African sword with inscription

A.alnakkas · 8th December 2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Hello Abdullatif. Could the second inscription be "ibn alSultan Zakariya". According to some online research, the father of Sultan Ali Dinar was Zakariya. Now, the question begs is whether or not this is actually a sword owned by Sultan Ali Dinar or not? Is anyone familiar enough with him to know of his familial backgrounds? I am still curious on the cross cultural influences I am seeing in this piece. I guess with the inscription this would place the piece circa 1898-1916? Jim? Stephen? I know you guys have done a lot of research in this region. Any thoughts?

thats correct! it is Zakariya, explains alot

Iain · 8th December 2010, 04:14 PM

Ali Dinar was a grandson of the last Keyra Fur sultan. The dynasty that ruled Dar Fur for quite a while (centuries as I recall). Can't find much else quickly online and most of my references are for further west in Sahel.

I think this sword is certainly of a level where it could have been owned by the sultan. The silver work is not out of line for Dar Fur being also seen on some of the more elaborate kaskara. I did turn up an old auction catalog reference for a kaskara owned by Dinar. P. Missillier and H. Ricketts 1988, no. 257 if that helps.

I still feel this piece is very reliant on Tebu form but the pommel has me stumped.

RSWORD · 9th December 2010, 12:42 PM

Hi Iain,

I agree there are a lot of Tebu similarities in both the scabbard and the handle. The Tebu were present in the Sudan and I was reading in one of my reference books that Sultan Ali Dinar had a large personal collection of swords and other arms. He seemed quite fond of that so to have a variety of styles, especially maybe out of respect of some of the ethnic groups that were in his area, may have been important to him. I agree that there are some good possibilities this is one of his swords. The inscription is in line with many I can find referenced. I also found a kaskara referenced that had those extra hanging pieces. I have not seen this in any other sword before so the fact another kaskara with similar inscription and similar extra hanging pieces is the type of circumstantial evidence that I am comfortable saying my sword was probably owned by Sultan Ali Dinar but unless I can run across a photograph that shows him with this sword it would be difficult to say it definitely was owned by him. Anyone have a large photo archive of Sultan Ali Dinar?

Iain · 9th December 2010, 12:51 PM

Hi, which hanging pieces are you referring to? The leather strings on the scabbard?

I'm still looking around for more info on this. Usually there is more than one of something or at least something in a similar style but this is, well just, odd and rare.

RSWORD · 10th December 2010, 12:31 PM

Yes, those leather strings with the ball finials that are attached to the shoulder harness are what I am referring to. I agree it is an unusual and rare example as I also have not run across a similar example. I am surprised nobody has joined our discussion as usually mysterious or unusual pieces spark some theories. Please, does anyone have any comments on this one?

Iain · 10th December 2010, 04:00 PM

While I haven't seen the ball finials before (thanks for pointing them out!) leather cords on kaskaras I've seen before integrated into the shoulder strap (I actually just sold one a week or so ago on the swap forum). Not sure of the reason for them of if they denote a region?

I'm also a bit surprised there's not more interest here. Folks we have a sword with a very good potential to have been owned by an important historical figure, that's about as good as it gets. So heck I'll throw a theory out there. There's something here that strikes me as resembling a kinjal. Ali Dinar was allied with the Ottomans and nominally under their rule. Perhaps the sword was made in a supposed Turkish style because of this?

CharlesS · 10th December 2010, 04:09 PM

This piece is fascinating for so many different reasons...where to start???....obviously the name attribution makes it far more "personal" than we collectors typically see.

The sword's features seemingly are influences not only from the Sudan, but embody the very nature of even the very earliest Islamic swords(notably the hilt).

I think this is one of the most fascinating pieces to show up on the forum in some time.

Good get Rick!

Congrats!!

8th December 2010, 04:14 PM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,719	Ali Dinar was a grandson of the last Keyra Fur sultan. The dynasty that ruled Dar Fur for quite a while (centuries as I recall). Can't find much else quickly online and most of my references are for further west in Sahel. I think this sword is certainly of a level where it could have been owned by the sultan. The silver work is not out of line for Dar Fur being also seen on some of the more elaborate kaskara. I did turn up an old auction catalog reference for a kaskara owned by Dinar. P. Missillier and H. Ricketts 1988, no. 257 if that helps. I still feel this piece is very reliant on Tebu form but the pommel has me stumped.

9th December 2010, 12:42 PM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Hi Iain, I agree there are a lot of Tebu similarities in both the scabbard and the handle. The Tebu were present in the Sudan and I was reading in one of my reference books that Sultan Ali Dinar had a large personal collection of swords and other arms. He seemed quite fond of that so to have a variety of styles, especially maybe out of respect of some of the ethnic groups that were in his area, may have been important to him. I agree that there are some good possibilities this is one of his swords. The inscription is in line with many I can find referenced. I also found a kaskara referenced that had those extra hanging pieces. I have not seen this in any other sword before so the fact another kaskara with similar inscription and similar extra hanging pieces is the type of circumstantial evidence that I am comfortable saying my sword was probably owned by Sultan Ali Dinar but unless I can run across a photograph that shows him with this sword it would be difficult to say it definitely was owned by him. Anyone have a large photo archive of Sultan Ali Dinar?

9th December 2010, 12:51 PM	#4
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,719	Hi, which hanging pieces are you referring to? The leather strings on the scabbard? I'm still looking around for more info on this. Usually there is more than one of something or at least something in a similar style but this is, well just, odd and rare.

10th December 2010, 12:31 PM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,087	Yes, those leather strings with the ball finials that are attached to the shoulder harness are what I am referring to. I agree it is an unusual and rare example as I also have not run across a similar example. I am surprised nobody has joined our discussion as usually mysterious or unusual pieces spark some theories. Please, does anyone have any comments on this one?

10th December 2010, 04:00 PM	#6
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,719	While I haven't seen the ball finials before (thanks for pointing them out!) leather cords on kaskaras I've seen before integrated into the shoulder strap (I actually just sold one a week or so ago on the swap forum). Not sure of the reason for them of if they denote a region? I'm also a bit surprised there's not more interest here. Folks we have a sword with a very good potential to have been owned by an important historical figure, that's about as good as it gets. So heck I'll throw a theory out there. There's something here that strikes me as resembling a kinjal. Ali Dinar was allied with the Ottomans and nominally under their rule. Perhaps the sword was made in a supposed Turkish style because of this?

10th December 2010, 04:09 PM	#7
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	This piece is fascinating for so many different reasons...where to start???....obviously the name attribution makes it far more "personal" than we collectors typically see. The sword's features seemingly are influences not only from the Sudan, but embody the very nature of even the very earliest Islamic swords(notably the hilt). I think this is one of the most fascinating pieces to show up on the forum in some time. Good get Rick! Congrats!!