Sword with Persian style decoration in the Topkapi Saray

wolviex · 22nd June 2005, 09:32 PM

Hello!

It is always as you need something you just can’t find it. I thought I will be able to find more photos of blades presenting the fight of the Phoenix with the Dragon.

First sword (pallash) is from my Museum. This presented by Brian above is indeed in Wawel castle collection. My is rehilted in 18th century. Sorry for not the best pictures, but I had to get into the display case to made them, while the first one is from catalogue. I couldn’t made the entire blade, but on one of the pictures you’ll find there is an gold inscription running down below the fight scene.

Second sword is scanned from “Blankwaffen” by Heribert Seitz. It is from Bayerisches National Museum in Munchen (Munich), hilt is from 17th century, blade “Persian, probably from the 15th century”.

And the third sword , and actually only the blade, while the handle was not shown, but this is most probably the same sword as the second one, was published in “Prunkwaffen” by Johannes Schobel. It is most interesting, while he gave more space for description. And, I want to point it out, just as in my Museum’s example, you can see an inscription on the blade. And Author wrote about this sabre, in short: “Blade is double edged, with Arabic inscription and Persian writhen foliate decoration. The Arabic inscription [this is hard, text is in German, so it won’t be literally meaning, sorry for any mistakes and nonsenses

] ‘Oh! Sword you can belittle (sic?!) the Gods/Deities. The Garden of Victory spreads through your water. You are in blood–relation with Ali’s Sword’ (excerpt)
Blades of this type are usually described as Mongolian from 14-15th centuries.
Persian work with Mongolian influence, beginning of the 15th century”.

For those who are laughing

because of my translation, here is German translation of the Arabian inscription. If there will be any hints, please let me know, maybe I will be able to edit my translation and rescue my honour

: “O Schwert, mögen durch dich der Götzenbilder sich verringern! Möge der Garten des Siegs durch dein Wasser gedaihen! Möge dein Bluntsverwandter das Schwert Alis sein!“

Regards!

Aqtai · 22nd June 2005, 09:54 PM

Beautiful pictures Wolviex. You mentioned these are sabres, so I'm guessing that these blades, unlike the Topkapi swords, are not straight. Judging by the number of examples, this style of decoration however appears to be relatively common.

About the writing, I can't read Persian, but I can read Arabic. I don't understand that inscription, so I'm guessing it is not Arabic.

The style of the script is Nasta'liq, a style that was used mainly in Iran and India.

Early Arabic inscriptions, up until the 12th century, use a script (the arabic word for script is khatt) called Kufi. Many of the "Blessed swords" do have Kufi inscriptions on them. In the late 12th century more flowing styles of script like naskh became fashionable. Mamluk art usually used another script called thuluth, although kufi was still occasionally used during the mamluk period, and the Ottomans tended to prefer a script called diwani.

wolviex · 22nd June 2005, 10:20 PM

SWORDS!! Of course they're swords! THEY'RE STRAIGHT - as a stick

.

I'll try to make edit in my last post to not mislead others!!

(stupid me)

They called it Arabic, and even translated it, so I don't know what's wrong. Maybe the translation was made by second person, and author wrongly called this script as Arabic?

B.I · 23rd June 2005, 02:28 AM

yes, michal, you dont fail to impress!
absolutely wonderful, especially the second sword.
i spent the day in a friends library, which is pretty much complete in all aspects of arms (where mine tends to concentrate on a very small section).
i found some interesting things, including a full article written on these sword blades by a respected academic, and hints of another which i ran out of time before i located it.
cant tell more as i was on something else at the time, but will have the articles sent to me soon. sorry, in my rush i didnt even take details as i knew i would have them at my leisure soon.
again, thank you michal for sharing your access to such fabulous pieces.

Shompola · 27th June 2005, 09:22 PM

The inscription on the blade on the last picture says in persian : Ey tigh keh az to khasm e din kam bada

Roughly it means You/oh, sword/blade who fade the enemies of the religion

22nd June 2005, 09:32 PM	#1
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	another examples Hello! It is always as you need something you just can’t find it. I thought I will be able to find more photos of blades presenting the fight of the Phoenix with the Dragon. First sword (pallash) is from my Museum. This presented by Brian above is indeed in Wawel castle collection. My is rehilted in 18th century. Sorry for not the best pictures, but I had to get into the display case to made them, while the first one is from catalogue. I couldn’t made the entire blade, but on one of the pictures you’ll find there is an gold inscription running down below the fight scene. Second sword is scanned from “Blankwaffen” by Heribert Seitz. It is from Bayerisches National Museum in Munchen (Munich), hilt is from 17th century, blade “Persian, probably from the 15th century”. And the third sword , and actually only the blade, while the handle was not shown, but this is most probably the same sword as the second one, was published in “Prunkwaffen” by Johannes Schobel. It is most interesting, while he gave more space for description. And, I want to point it out, just as in my Museum’s example, you can see an inscription on the blade. And Author wrote about this sabre, in short: “Blade is double edged, with Arabic inscription and Persian writhen foliate decoration. The Arabic inscription [this is hard, text is in German, so it won’t be literally meaning, sorry for any mistakes and nonsenses ] ‘Oh! Sword you can belittle (sic?!) the Gods/Deities. The Garden of Victory spreads through your water. You are in blood–relation with Ali’s Sword’ (excerpt) Blades of this type are usually described as Mongolian from 14-15th centuries. Persian work with Mongolian influence, beginning of the 15th century”. For those who are laughing because of my translation, here is German translation of the Arabian inscription. If there will be any hints, please let me know, maybe I will be able to edit my translation and rescue my honour : “O Schwert, mögen durch dich der Götzenbilder sich verringern! Möge der Garten des Siegs durch dein Wasser gedaihen! Möge dein Bluntsverwandter das Schwert Alis sein!“ Regards! Attached Images Last edited by wolviex; 22nd June 2005 at 10:22 PM.

22nd June 2005, 09:54 PM	#2
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	Beautiful pictures Wolviex. You mentioned these are sabres, so I'm guessing that these blades, unlike the Topkapi swords, are not straight. Judging by the number of examples, this style of decoration however appears to be relatively common. About the writing, I can't read Persian, but I can read Arabic. I don't understand that inscription, so I'm guessing it is not Arabic. The style of the script is Nasta'liq, a style that was used mainly in Iran and India. Early Arabic inscriptions, up until the 12th century, use a script (the arabic word for script is khatt) called Kufi. Many of the "Blessed swords" do have Kufi inscriptions on them. In the late 12th century more flowing styles of script like naskh became fashionable. Mamluk art usually used another script called thuluth, although kufi was still occasionally used during the mamluk period, and the Ottomans tended to prefer a script called diwani. Last edited by Aqtai; 22nd June 2005 at 10:32 PM.

22nd June 2005, 10:20 PM	#3
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	SWORDS!! Of course they're swords! THEY'RE STRAIGHT - as a stick . I'll try to make edit in my last post to not mislead others!! (stupid me) They called it Arabic, and even translated it, so I don't know what's wrong. Maybe the translation was made by second person, and author wrongly called this script as Arabic?

23rd June 2005, 02:28 AM	#4
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	yes, michal, you dont fail to impress! absolutely wonderful, especially the second sword. i spent the day in a friends library, which is pretty much complete in all aspects of arms (where mine tends to concentrate on a very small section). i found some interesting things, including a full article written on these sword blades by a respected academic, and hints of another which i ran out of time before i located it. cant tell more as i was on something else at the time, but will have the articles sent to me soon. sorry, in my rush i didnt even take details as i knew i would have them at my leisure soon. again, thank you michal for sharing your access to such fabulous pieces.

27th June 2005, 09:22 PM	#5
Shompola Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1	The inscription on the blade on the last picture says in persian : Ey tigh keh az to khasm e din kam bada Roughly it means You/oh, sword/blade who fade the enemies of the religion