Sulawesi (toraja?) keris

[Henk]

Nice, but i'm afraid made for those who travel for pleasure

[Marcokeris]

last pic

[Battara]

The repousse looks like recent work. I agree that the quality is tourist quality.

[Jean]

I would not say tourist quality but rather common or low quality as this piece seems to have been used, what is the base materials of the metal oversheath?
I attach the picture of a similar used piece in my collection, the base metal is silver.
Best regards
Jean

[Alam Shah]

Looks like a ceremonial piece used for weddings, as part of a traditional wear.

[Sajen]

I am with Alam, looks like a wedding kris with some age.

[guwaya]

Originally Posted by Sajen

I am with Alam, looks like a wedding kris with some age.

Besides the general question, how a wedding keris in general, independently from the area of its origin, has to look like - what are the criteria that make him to a [B]wedding keris, declared as such from a member of an outside culture without any further background information - particular in the case of this here presented keris from Toradja(?) land with its quality as it is, it would be of greatest interest for me to receive the facts upon which this attribution can be done.

Thanks and as an advise, it is not my aim to offend anyone in any manner, but this question, and more so the answer, is of real interest for me.

guwaya

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Jean

.. I attach the picture of a similar used piece in my collection, the base metal is silver.
Best regards
Jean

Hi Jean,
Your keris blade is of better workmanship, a well-made piece of Sulawesi standard.. However, the base areas where the 'goldish' material is, seems to be 'disturbed' at the greneng, making the flaring area seems a little awkward..

Shahrial

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Hi Jean,
Your keris blade is of better workmanship, a well-made piece of Sulawesi standard.. However, the base areas where the 'goldish' material is, seems to be 'disturbed' at the greneng, making the flaring area seems a little awkward..

Shahrial

Hello Sharial,
I fully agree that my piece is not an art masterpiece but I think a genuine Toraja kris made by a local smith for wearing during burial and wedding ceremonies especially. The base of my blade is not harmonious and quite similar to Marco's one (ganja iras, thick and roughly carved gandik and kembang kacang), I don't think that there is anything wrong under the gilt silver plate but I will check. I agree that Marco's kris is a genuine piece also but of common quality, I visited the Toraja area 15 years ago and there were absolutely no genuine or even tourist piece for sale so these pieces are quite rare to find.
Best regards
Jean

[Alam Shah]

Hi Jean,

Thanks Jean for your feedback. I'm not saying that it's not genuine, but merely stating what I see from the posted picture.. I agree with your opinion on both keris. Quality do differ. Toraja is capable of producing beautiful workmanship.. it is evident in the bladed weapons from that region, the dua lalan, etc. Coming back to keris, here's a link to another toraja keris, (( link )).. although the picture is not too clear and the blade is not visible.. the toraja form and quality workmanship is evident..

Best regards,
Shahrial

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

I visited the Toraja area 15 years ago and there were absolutely no genuine or even tourist piece for sale so these pieces are quite rare to find.

I wonder if this is not because Toraja really has no long standing keris culture to speak of. When did the keris first come to Toraja? It has obviously been incorporated somewhat into their rituals (i believe into their elaborate death ceremonies), but it seems to me that this didn't take place until the 20th century. This particular highland culture of Sulawesi was rather insular before then. Their culture, architecture, symbolism, specific animistic beliefs and rituals, are very unique to the area. Even to this day they are different from the majority of Indonesians as their culture has, for the most part, adopted Protestant Christianity as it's religion, with only a 5% muslim population. Has anyone seen a well provenanced 19th century Torajan keris?
I searched through some photos looking for some Torajan keris culture. It is interesting to note that in the photos below keris are only carried by very specific women in the ceremonies shown. In some of the overview ceremonial images i see no keris present. The keris held by the singular woman is clearly in Javanese dress. I cannot see the dress clearly enough in the image of the two women w/keris to know if there is anything specifically Tojaran about them or if they are Bugis style keris.
Here is a nice overview of the Tojara.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toraja

[guwaya]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Sharial,
I agree that Marco's kris is a genuine piece also but of common quality, I visited the Toraja area 15 years ago and there were absolutely no genuine or even tourist piece for sale so these pieces are quite rare to find.
Best regards
Jean

Sorry Jean,

I traveld in Sulawesi nearby the same time and as well as in Makassar (Ujung Pandang by that time) as well as in Rantepao I saw and became offered a lot of tourist pieces, and grubbing through the shops I would say I saw more tourist pieces (to use this term) than honest ones.

Additionally by that time Sulawesi Artshop in Kuta/Legian Bali already had two shops offering a lot of Sulawesi touris pieces as well as the terrible brass made Bali hilts set with mostly class-stones.

Again, it is not in my interest to offend enybody - but it has to be said as this are my personal experiences.

guwaya