Barrel from Grandson battlefield

Matchlock · 29th November 2010, 03:16 PM

Hi Alexander,

By blade backsight I meant that it is thin as a blade; this, as far as I know, is a common expression in English.

By now I have read the captions to the illustrations and learned that 'our' barrel in discussion was not found on, but near the Grandson battlefield site. So it is not sure that it actually saw service in that battle. This fact accounts for my suspicion that it was altered during its longer working life: the blade backsight, im my eperience, is a modernization of ca. 1500, as well as the pan and possibly the barrel loops. In the 1470's, the touchhole was still situated near the top of the barrel, and pans were unknown. All there was to the touchhole was a more or less deep molding, the earliest predecessor of a pan. Integral pans on wrought iron barrels did not show up before ca. the 1490's.

That considered, I am sure that barrel cannot have ended its working life on Grandson battlefield.

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 29th November 2010, 06:04 PM

A blade backsight on the rear end of a Nuremberg wrought iron haquebut, ca. 1500-10, the serpentine a working life addition of ca. 1525.

The flat and drilled rear extension (tang) originally had grips of wood or staghorn attached, like on a dagger or a Großes Messer. It ended in a ring shaped grip which is now missing, as seen on a piece from the same series and with identical maker's mark below.

m

Spiridonov · 29th November 2010, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

By now I have read the captions to the illustrations and learned that 'our' barrel in discussion was not found on, but near the Grandson battlefield site. So it is not sure that it actually saw service in that battle. This fact accounts for my suspicion that it was altered during its longer working life: the blade backsight, im my eperience, is a modernization of ca. 1500, as well as the pan and possibly the barrel loops. In the 1470's, the touchhole was still situated near the top of the barrel, and pans were unknown. All there was to the touchhole was a more or less deep molding, the earliest predecessor of a pan. Integral pans on wrought iron barrels did not show up before ca. the 1490's.

Maybe it was an exception like handgonne from notebook of Lorenco Ghiberty or arquebuse from "Fuerhwerk"

Maybe it was such a rare thing

Matchlock · 29th November 2010, 11:29 PM

Hi Alexander,

Sorry but I do not believe much in exceptions to the rule as far as technical developments are concerned. Rather we know from hundreds of tate 15th c. raw barrels that were changened and rechanged, altered and modernized again and again during their later working lives, and for at least as long as the late 30th Years War (ca. 1650), and sometimes even as long as the mid-19th c. percussion era ...!

There is definitely one single and specific argument that in my opinion can't be reasonably beaten: the craftsman and art workers were not able to skip over and anticipate the both artificially and technically developing future details of development ...

Best,
Michael

29th November 2010, 06:04 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A blade backsight on the rear end of a Nuremberg wrought iron haquebut, ca. 1500-10, the serpentine a working life addition of ca. 1525. The flat and drilled rear extension (tang) originally had grips of wood or staghorn attached, like on a dagger or a Großes Messer. It ended in a ring shaped grip which is now missing, as seen on a piece from the same series and with identical maker's mark below. m Attached Images

29th November 2010, 03:16 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Alexander, By blade backsight I meant that it is thin as a blade; this, as far as I know, is a common expression in English. By now I have read the captions to the illustrations and learned that 'our' barrel in discussion was not found on, but near the Grandson battlefield site. So it is not sure that it actually saw service in that battle. This fact accounts for my suspicion that it was altered during its longer working life: the blade backsight, im my eperience, is a modernization of ca. 1500, as well as the pan and possibly the barrel loops. In the 1470's, the touchhole was still situated near the top of the barrel, and pans were unknown. All there was to the touchhole was a more or less deep molding, the earliest predecessor of a pan. Integral pans on wrought iron barrels did not show up before ca. the 1490's. That considered, I am sure that barrel cannot have ended its working life on Grandson battlefield. Best, Michael

29th November 2010, 11:29 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Alexander, Sorry but I do not believe much in exceptions to the rule as far as technical developments are concerned. Rather we know from hundreds of tate 15th c. raw barrels that were changened and rechanged, altered and modernized again and again during their later working lives, and for at least as long as the late 30th Years War (ca. 1650), and sometimes even as long as the mid-19th c. percussion era ...! There is definitely one single and specific argument that in my opinion can't be reasonably beaten: the craftsman and art workers were not able to skip over and anticipate the both artificially and technically developing future details of development ... Best, Michael