Help with (Moro Kris?)

[Yanni]

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your replies.
I do wish to restore this piece and to keep in "spirit" with the creators.

Mr. tunggulametung,
I am leaning towards your suggestion of using cane binding for the sheath.
Perhaps Tung Oil for the finish?

As for the hilt / pommel issue...
Mr. Battara,
You are correct in that there are two thin (brass?) bands that are wrapped around the silver stirrups and are extending up the sides of the hilt.
They are broken off at the top and they appear that they were somehow attached to and were holding down the pommel.
I have attached two other pictures of the hilt and the cane wrapping.
From that angle you can see the remnants of those two metal strips.
If you look closer at the cane bindings, you can see that there is actually only one layer covering the wooden hilt. The "inner" layer is inter woven with the "outer" layer, and both are held together by a single strand of cane that is inter-woven between both layers.
It is really neat the way it was done.

As Mr. T_C stated, and I agree, "with all the work that went into the blade, the handle dress would be somewhat more lavish. The finishing touches of the handle don't match the craftsmanship of the blade."

What do you members imagine for this blade as a manner of dress for the hilt?
Would perhaps a one piece, minimally carved mahogany, with silver wire highlights? I would like to keep the same simple utilitarian profile.
Would something like this be true to the tribal region?

All opinions and recommendations will be valued and considered.

There is a story that goes with this piece, as to how I came to be in possession of it.
Around 2001 I went to a local flea market and I happened to look in to a bucket of old rusty tools and there it was. Laying in the bucket hilt down, with two pipe wrenches on top and under an assortment of screwdrivers, chisels, 2 hammers and a bent machete. The sheath was taped together with rotted duct tape and separate from the kris. The blade and hilt was covered with layers of dried mud and grime.
I asked the old lady selling it for some information.
She said that her husband brought it back from the war and he told her that it was old. It was in the garage for years. I think I paid $25.00 or $30.00 for it.
I honestly believed that I would find a rusty pile of junk under all of that muck, but the more I cleaned the bigger the smile on my face got.
There is still a thin layer of black oxidation on it, and a thin film of gun oil.
There are also faint hints of damascene shapes and lines just aching to get out.

You guys are great!

Thank you much,

Yanni

[David]

Originally Posted by Yanni

As Mr. T_C stated, and I agree, "with all the work that went into the blade, the handle dress would be somewhat more lavish. The finishing touches of the handle don't match the craftsmanship of the blade."

What do you members imagine for this blade as a manner of dress for the hilt?
Would perhaps a one piece, minimally carved mahogany, with silver wire highlights? I would like to keep the same simple utilitarian profile.
Would something like this be true to the tribal region?

All opinions and recommendations will be valued and considered.

My recommendation would be not to change the hilt dress at all. Whether this once had more elaborate dress or not is not the issue for me. If you choose to change this and make it more elaborate to match the work of the blade then you will be firstly, only guessing at what you think it should be judging from a place outside the original culture, and secondly, removing a perfectly authentic wrap done by the one-time original indigenous owner that is in good condition and should probably be preserved, not replaced. This hilt is fair more valuable to me "as is" from my personal collecting POV than any more "correct" restoration you might do as a collector. I cannot see the advantage to removing part of the history of this kris in order to present a more "perfect" envisioning of how we as collectors feel it might have once looked. There is a time for restoration and a time for preservation.

[Sajen]

I am in agreement with David about the hilt. It isn't apparently the hilt of the first issue of the blade but a piece of the history of this kris so when it would be mine I don't would change something.... this hilt will never have had silver bands in my humble opinion so I don't would touch it.
Since the blade will have a lamination like you told us I would sand it with very fine wet abrasive paper and would etch it.
A other thing is the missing silver-inlays, I think to restore this will be a good thing.

About the sheath: it would look nice with silver bands again since they have been there like it is still to seen. A care with wood oil or antique wax and a closing polish of the wooden part will bring out a good looking sheath.

But this is only my humble opinion, others will think different.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Oh, and please don't open the small band (mansala) at the hilt.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by David

My recommendation would be not to change the hilt dress at all. Whether this once had more elaborate dress or not is not the issue for me. If you choose to change this and make it more elaborate to match the work of the blade then you will be firstly, only guessing at what you think it should be judging from a place outside the original culture, and secondly, removing a perfectly authentic wrap done by the one-time original indigenous owner that is in good condition and should probably be preserved, not replaced. This hilt is fair more valuable to me "as is" from my personal collecting POV than any more "correct" restoration you might do as a collector. I cannot see the advantage to removing part of the history of this kris in order to present a more "perfect" envisioning of how we as collectors feel it might have once looked. There is a time for restoration and a time for preservation.

Absolutely !
I agree totally with David about this piece .

Let me put it this way; if you restore it you destroy its history and real worth.

I can't urge you strongly enough to leave it intact .

[Battara]

I will say with certainty that if you get it restored, at least get the missing inlay replaced and the blade restained (if not the scabbard too). It is a great blade.

[David]

I agree that it might look nice to restore the silver to the inlay of the blade. Here we have a case where there is just no question, the silver was once there and it would seem absolutely correct to replace it.
With the hilt we have a completely different case though. Yes, this is probably not the origin hilt. But you would need to make a number of assumption and outright guess if indeed you were to decide to "return" it to it's original splendor and at the same time you would be destroying the history of the kris itself.
From what i can see it does indeed look like the sheath once had metal bands and given the blade they may well have been silver. So if you wanted to go that route it might look OK. But it does seem to have one rattan band at the bottom and so it might look better as an ensemble piece to simply add a couple more rattan bands. Since rattan was the way this kris was maintained when last in service it seems most appropriate to restore with rattan. Try giving the wood a good cleaning/oiling and it should look pretty nice.

[Atlantia]

Lovely looking sword Yanni.
Congratulations, and welcome to the forums.
Regards
Gene

[Rick]

Originally Posted by David

I agree that it might look nice to restore the silver to the inlay of the blade. Here we have a case where there is just no question, the silver was once there and it would seem absolutely correct to replace it.
With the hilt we have a completely different case though. Yes, this is probably not the origin hilt. But you would need to make a number of assumption and outright guess if indeed you were to decide to "return" it to it's original splendor and at the same time you would be destroying the history of the kris itself.
From what i can see it does indeed look like the sheath once had metal bands and given the blade they may well have been silver. So if you wanted to go that route it might look OK. But it does seem to have one rattan band at the bottom and so it might look better as an ensemble piece to simply add a couple more rattan bands. Since rattan was the way this kris was maintained when last in service it seems most appropriate to restore with rattan. Try giving the wood a good cleaning/oiling and it should look pretty nice.

My concern would be that the replacement silver would not match the original inlay.

Sterling ?

Not likely; the resulting patinas may well not match ...

As for the scabbard bands; if there is one rattan one extant I'd suggest adding another one or 2 of the same type .

This piece absolutely reeks of desperation and defiance to the last breath .
That is the story I read from this ensemble .

Here is an original wrap .

Overactive imagination ?

Maybe .

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi Yanni,

As you can see there are many opinions on directions one can go, the choice is always yours and thus far the job you have done is a great job getting it to the condition that you have...
My thoughts are in line with others in being that the restoration on this should be limited. My thoughts are as follows;

1/Clean properly the inside of the scabbard housing
2/Rebind the scabbard pieces in rattan (There has been a good discussion about this recently and a big thanks to Steve for his photography binding steps in an old post being bought back to life). Oil the scabbard too, again, many choices of oil here.
3/The patterns in the steel can be bought out with chemicals or with the fine cleanings you are giving it, though chemicals are instant and more dramatic but neutralise neutralise neutralise.
4/The inlay, your call, but be sure to ensure all cut outs in the blade are perfectly cleaned if this is to be done. I wouldn't be too worried about any colour differences, a very light 0000 steel wool application will have it all shining should you venture down this road.
5/Leave the binding on the hilt as it is, it is ethnographically important.
6/Right or wrong I'd run with an small ivory pommel and have it intensely aged.

My opinion in most restorations bar a few is that the road with least resistance is always of preference and I wouldn't be too bothered with doing points 3 or 4 unless you really want to as a personal choice.
I currently have a pair of 18th century Jian with a master restorer. As the blades need straightening and a proper polish I am going to loose some inlay in a small rusted area that I want polished out. This I am asking to be re-chiseled and the gold replaced. An expensive exercise for me but my choice...just wishing to indicate anything can be done should you wish.
Regardless, enjoy the piece you have, it is nice even in its current condition.

Gav