Dutch Cutlass

Amuk Murugul · 26th November 2010, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

This weapon is most likely a police klewang. The klewang no.2 police. Identical to the klewang-marechaussee M. 1913 with two differences. It is not chrome-plated but nickeled and the blade edge is sharp. This was done in the factory. In addition no KM-mark (for Koninklijke Marechaussee) can be found on the hilt.
The klewang was used from 1898 until 1968 by many police forces. Only these two klewangs had metal scabbards.

Hullo Henk,

Would you be able to post a picture of a KM hilt with the KM-mark? Thanks.
I suspect that you are correct in that it is a police klewang (i.e. No. 2). I just didn't want to complicate the issue by differentiating between a KM and a No.2. (I wasn't sure about the above hilt not having a 'KM'-mark. Do they ALL have a KM-mark and it ALWAYS in the same position on the hilt?)
Also, as you will have noticed, the serial no. doesn't have a 'KM' pre-fix. ( I wasn't sure whether ALL KMs had a KM pre-fix)

Best,

Henk · 28th November 2010, 05:39 PM

Hello Amuk Murugul,

Unfortunately I cann't place a picture of a hilt with the KM mark. I haven't a picture avaible and neither such a klewang. The place of the KM mark is on the hilt just above the handguard. All klewang of the Koninklijke Marechaussee have a KM mark with number and all on the same position. The klewang of the Koninklijke Marechaussee is a military weapon and is therefore standard on the same position.

ruiter58 · 12th December 2010, 11:16 PM

Hello Alexander,

I own a klewang just like the one you´re having (mine has number 671) and as far as I can tell from the pictures it´s original. The Klewang I have does not have the mentioned KM mark either but I do have a letter (1986) from the director (The director in 1986 that is) of the "Koninklijke Marechausse Museum" stating that it is an original KM Klewang (Based on photo´s I´ve sent him) I do have another Klewang with a KM mark on it (This one was investigated by Mr Puype in 1983, he is co-author of the mentioned klewang book) The KM one I have (with a leather scabbard) has been issued to the Dutch Royal navy in 1935. In this case the KM stands for "Koninklijke Marine" (Royal Navy).

I will check in the Klewang book if I can find some more information on the Marechaussee Klewang. As stated earlier in another post, this type of klewang was also used by the Dutch police forces.

The Klewang is still in use today but only ceremonial. You can see the Marechausse klewang in use when the opening of the dutch parliament takes place. Every year on the third tuesday in september this is on. You can find some pictures using the search "prinsjesdag klewang". Mind you that they are probably using newly created klewangs (somewhere during the eighties, easy to recognize by their very thin layer of chrome)

Henk · 14th December 2010, 07:57 PM

ruiter58,

In the first place welcome to the forum.

Can you explain to me why the director of the "Koninklijke Marechausse Museum" is stating despite the missing KM-mark on your klewang that this is an original KM klewang and not a klewang no.2 police despite the statement of J.P. Puype, the conservator of the Dutch Army Museum and R.J. de Stürler-Boekwijt in their book Catalogue of the Dutch Army Museum? The same book that you're going to check to find some more information on the Marechaussee Klewang.

Amuk Murugul · 15th December 2010, 05:22 AM

Hullo everybody,

My twee-duit's worth:

I managed to rescue a KM from neglect. It had traces of chrome plate on the guard, scabbard etc. However, it was pretty much rusted. So, I decided to do an immediate cleaning. As the item was located in ..... wait for it ..... HAWAII (of all places), I decided on fruit juice as the cleanser. I disassembled it and cleaned. All parts were original to the piece. (see attached photo; please don't step on my toes

)
I noticed that the serial no. had no 'KM' prefix. I sought a definitive answer to this, but to date, have had no reply from any Dutch authority/museum.
However, I seem to remember that the Leger Museum in Delft has KM's that are with and w/o this prefix.

Please enlighten me.

Best,

Henk · 15th December 2010, 02:38 PM

Gentlemen,

I dropped the question about the missing K.M. prefix and still being a klewang-marechaussee despite the explaination in their book at the Legermuseum in Delft. As soon as i receive an answer (within 10 working days) i will inform you.

ruiter58 · 16th December 2010, 12:16 AM

Hello,

thanks for the welcome. First of all I am happy not to be alone anymore.
I have attached a scan of the first lines of the letter I received from the Marechaussee museum. It is in Dutch and states that: " In an answer to your letter I herewith inform you that the Klewang number 671 is an original KMAR klewang from before 1940" I did send him a few pictures of the Klewang. Unfortunately I am not able to make photo's of the Klewang at this moment.

I think that there is a lot of confusion because we can refer to the Marechausse klewang (M1913) as a type (regardless of it's use, either by police forces or actually by the Marechaussee) or as the Klewang used by the Marechaussee (which doesn't need to be a M1913)

I am very curious what the reply of the museum will be on Henk's question. Whatever the outcome may be, this forum shows that it is a very interesting weapon and no matter how many books we can consult, we will always be stuck with unanswered questions. Once I have a camera I will post some pictures on another klewang hoping that someone can tell me some more about the marks on that one.

best regards,
Ron de Ruiter

12th December 2010, 11:16 PM	#3
ruiter58 Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Kytlice, Czech Republic Posts: 19	Marechaussee Klewang Hello Alexander, I own a klewang just like the one you´re having (mine has number 671) and as far as I can tell from the pictures it´s original. The Klewang I have does not have the mentioned KM mark either but I do have a letter (1986) from the director (The director in 1986 that is) of the "Koninklijke Marechausse Museum" stating that it is an original KM Klewang (Based on photo´s I´ve sent him) I do have another Klewang with a KM mark on it (This one was investigated by Mr Puype in 1983, he is co-author of the mentioned klewang book) The KM one I have (with a leather scabbard) has been issued to the Dutch Royal navy in 1935. In this case the KM stands for "Koninklijke Marine" (Royal Navy). I will check in the Klewang book if I can find some more information on the Marechaussee Klewang. As stated earlier in another post, this type of klewang was also used by the Dutch police forces. The Klewang is still in use today but only ceremonial. You can see the Marechausse klewang in use when the opening of the dutch parliament takes place. Every year on the third tuesday in september this is on. You can find some pictures using the search "prinsjesdag klewang". Mind you that they are probably using newly created klewangs (somewhere during the eighties, easy to recognize by their very thin layer of chrome)

15th December 2010, 05:22 AM	#5
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 474	M1913 Klewang Marechaussee (KM) Hullo everybody, My twee-duit's worth: I managed to rescue a KM from neglect. It had traces of chrome plate on the guard, scabbard etc. However, it was pretty much rusted. So, I decided to do an immediate cleaning. As the item was located in ..... wait for it ..... HAWAII (of all places), I decided on fruit juice as the cleanser. I disassembled it and cleaned. All parts were original to the piece. (see attached photo; please don't step on my toes ) I noticed that the serial no. had no 'KM' prefix. I sought a definitive answer to this, but to date, have had no reply from any Dutch authority/museum. However, I seem to remember that the Leger Museum in Delft has KM's that are with and w/o this prefix. Please enlighten me. Best, Attached Images Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 15th December 2010 at 05:34 AM.

16th December 2010, 12:16 AM	#7
ruiter58 Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Kytlice, Czech Republic Posts: 19	Marechaussee Klewang Hello, thanks for the welcome. First of all I am happy not to be alone anymore. I have attached a scan of the first lines of the letter I received from the Marechaussee museum. It is in Dutch and states that: " In an answer to your letter I herewith inform you that the Klewang number 671 is an original KMAR klewang from before 1940" I did send him a few pictures of the Klewang. Unfortunately I am not able to make photo's of the Klewang at this moment. I think that there is a lot of confusion because we can refer to the Marechausse klewang (M1913) as a type (regardless of it's use, either by police forces or actually by the Marechaussee) or as the Klewang used by the Marechaussee (which doesn't need to be a M1913) I am very curious what the reply of the museum will be on Henk's question. Whatever the outcome may be, this forum shows that it is a very interesting weapon and no matter how many books we can consult, we will always be stuck with unanswered questions. Once I have a camera I will post some pictures on another klewang hoping that someone can tell me some more about the marks on that one. best regards, Ron de Ruiter Attached Images Last edited by ruiter58; 16th December 2010 at 01:13 PM.

28th November 2010, 05:39 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Hello Amuk Murugul, Unfortunately I cann't place a picture of a hilt with the KM mark. I haven't a picture avaible and neither such a klewang. The place of the KM mark is on the hilt just above the handguard. All klewang of the Koninklijke Marechaussee have a KM mark with number and all on the same position. The klewang of the Koninklijke Marechaussee is a military weapon and is therefore standard on the same position.

14th December 2010, 07:57 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	ruiter58, In the first place welcome to the forum. Can you explain to me why the director of the "Koninklijke Marechausse Museum" is stating despite the missing KM-mark on your klewang that this is an original KM klewang and not a klewang no.2 police despite the statement of J.P. Puype, the conservator of the Dutch Army Museum and R.J. de Stürler-Boekwijt in their book Catalogue of the Dutch Army Museum? The same book that you're going to check to find some more information on the Marechaussee Klewang.

15th December 2010, 02:38 PM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Gentlemen, I dropped the question about the missing K.M. prefix and still being a klewang-marechaussee despite the explaination in their book at the Legermuseum in Delft. As soon as i receive an answer (within 10 working days) i will inform you.