Crusiform bladed Dagger E Bay

Ron Anderson · 17th November 2010, 10:50 PM

Hi laEspada

It's possible. It would be a shame though. As no practicing Wiccan is likely to appreciate it for its true merits or its immense cultural and historical interest.

I can only hope it was bought by a collector. I am one collector who would have paid that price if it were legal or easy for me to import daggers of this type into Australia.

Ron

Ron Anderson · 17th November 2010, 11:06 PM

Apologies to Wiccans who also happen to be arms and armour collectors. You of course are exempt from that sweeping generalisation.

fearn · 18th November 2010, 01:17 AM

I'm not a Wiccan, but I figure that if members of any religion happens to hold a particular type of knife or sword sacred, it's really helpful to help them take proper care of their implements, whether it's a keris, an athame, a kirpan, or a druid grove's ceremonial sickles and swords.

We all like our blades, after all. No reason not to focus on our shared interests.

My 0.00002 cents,

F

David · 18th November 2010, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Anderson

Apologies to Wiccans who also happen to be arms and armour collectors. You of course are exempt from that sweeping generalisation.

Ron, i think you might have underestimated how many practicing Wiccans (or other neo-pagans) have an intensive interest and understanding of particular forms of arms and armour.
Do i have to point out that Gerald Garnder, the father of modern Wicca, was the author of Keris and Other Malay Weapons.
A sweeping generalization indeed...

Ron Anderson · 18th November 2010, 03:21 AM

Do i have to point out that Gerald Gardner, the father of modern Wicca, was the author of Keris and Other Malay Weapons.

Mmmmm...no, this I did not know. thank you, very interesting. Is this the same Gerald Gardner who published studies on witch hunts in medieval Europe? This just happens to be what my postgraduate history dissertation was about.

Fearn, as for sacred knives and weapons, I couldn't agree more. I am a practicing Tantric Buddhist, which is perhaps more of a contradiction/paradox for an arms collector than being a Wiccan. Many of the Tibetan knives under discussion here are items used in the tantric rituals I practice. Though I don't personally use those knives, or even own any......yet.

If there are Wiccans out there who have Tibetan tantric knives or implements they'd like to swap for potential athames, drop me a line. We need to talk.

Tim Simmons · 18th November 2010, 09:10 AM

I love gothic horror flims, my favourite film is "Dracula A.D, 1972" even if it is a bit silly. I like most of all the black mass scene with the "White Noise" album "Elecric Storm" sound track.
The artwork seen on this dagger is to my mind far to mature to have anthing to do with, you know what. It is the same Victorian taste as this box by Placido Zuloaga 1833-1910 Iron, counterfeit-damascened gold and silver, with applied gold and silver mounts, interior lined with stamped leather. held in the V&A.
Also this "Minton & Co" candlestick 1859. All under the term "The Renaisssance Revival"

Sadly the pub down the road called the Wyvern with the appropriate pub sign. Is not a Hell Fire Club last time I poped in. Perhaps I do not know the secret nod or wink

.

David · 18th November 2010, 12:35 PM

Thanks for these postings and exactly my point....and i sooooooo want that box!!!

Jim McDougall · 19th November 2010, 03:55 AM

Actually Gerald B. Gardner does happen to be the author of the notable work "Keris and Other Malay Weapons" (1936). His interests in occult coupled with his being an anthropologist, and his field work in SE Asia led to this work, but it would seem that his focus was on the anthropological aspects and ethnographic elements with these weapons rather than outright collecting of them simply as weapons themselves. I believe he saw them as importantly associated esoterica corresponding to his metaphysical beliefs.

While the use of votive or ritual weapons in established practices of certain religious or group followings, is often well established, it does not necessarily suggest that members or followers are inherently weapons collectors in general. In most cases the weapons are collectively used by the group or held in sacred places where ceremonies take place. Obviously this would not preclude personal acquisition of a weapon appropriately themed for an individual, as may well be the case with this dagger.

All best regards,
Jim

18th November 2010, 09:10 AM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I love gothic horror flims, my favourite film is "Dracula A.D, 1972" even if it is a bit silly. I like most of all the black mass scene with the "White Noise" album "Elecric Storm" sound track. The artwork seen on this dagger is to my mind far to mature to have anthing to do with, you know what. It is the same Victorian taste as this box by Placido Zuloaga 1833-1910 Iron, counterfeit-damascened gold and silver, with applied gold and silver mounts, interior lined with stamped leather. held in the V&A. Also this "Minton & Co" candlestick 1859. All under the term "The Renaisssance Revival" Sadly the pub down the road called the Wyvern with the appropriate pub sign. Is not a Hell Fire Club last time I poped in. Perhaps I do not know the secret nod or wink . Attached Images

19th November 2010, 03:55 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Actually Gerald B. Gardner does happen to be the author of the notable work "Keris and Other Malay Weapons" (1936). His interests in occult coupled with his being an anthropologist, and his field work in SE Asia led to this work, but it would seem that his focus was on the anthropological aspects and ethnographic elements with these weapons rather than outright collecting of them simply as weapons themselves. I believe he saw them as importantly associated esoterica corresponding to his metaphysical beliefs. While the use of votive or ritual weapons in established practices of certain religious or group followings, is often well established, it does not necessarily suggest that members or followers are inherently weapons collectors in general. In most cases the weapons are collectively used by the group or held in sacred places where ceremonies take place. Obviously this would not preclude personal acquisition of a weapon appropriately themed for an individual, as may well be the case with this dagger. All best regards, Jim Attached Images

17th November 2010, 10:50 PM	#1
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi laEspada It's possible. It would be a shame though. As no practicing Wiccan is likely to appreciate it for its true merits or its immense cultural and historical interest. I can only hope it was bought by a collector. I am one collector who would have paid that price if it were legal or easy for me to import daggers of this type into Australia. Ron

17th November 2010, 11:06 PM	#2
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Apologies to Wiccans who also happen to be arms and armour collectors. You of course are exempt from that sweeping generalisation.

18th November 2010, 01:17 AM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I'm not a Wiccan, but I figure that if members of any religion happens to hold a particular type of knife or sword sacred, it's really helpful to help them take proper care of their implements, whether it's a keris, an athame, a kirpan, or a druid grove's ceremonial sickles and swords. We all like our blades, after all. No reason not to focus on our shared interests. My 0.00002 cents, F

18th November 2010, 03:21 AM	#5
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Do i have to point out that Gerald Gardner, the father of modern Wicca, was the author of Keris and Other Malay Weapons. Mmmmm...no, this I did not know. thank you, very interesting. Is this the same Gerald Gardner who published studies on witch hunts in medieval Europe? This just happens to be what my postgraduate history dissertation was about. Fearn, as for sacred knives and weapons, I couldn't agree more. I am a practicing Tantric Buddhist, which is perhaps more of a contradiction/paradox for an arms collector than being a Wiccan. Many of the Tibetan knives under discussion here are items used in the tantric rituals I practice. Though I don't personally use those knives, or even own any......yet. If there are Wiccans out there who have Tibetan tantric knives or implements they'd like to swap for potential athames, drop me a line. We need to talk.

18th November 2010, 12:35 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Thanks for these postings and exactly my point....and i sooooooo want that box!!!