Pair of Moro Barong

kai · 15th November 2010, 03:01 AM

Nice start for a barung collection!

Both blades may well be 19th c. IMHO and I'd be tempted to repolish and etch the longer one (or both). Just a hunch - I'm wondering wether with the Samal barung only the pommel might have been replaced during the 20th c.?

Both scabbards appear to be of good quality. Tips(feet) of both scabbards have been broken off (happens a lot); the Tausug(?) piece with another break on the other side of the throat.

Please post close-ups when you receive these!

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thats very interesting if he thinks the hilt carvings can tell us a rough date.

The hilt does seem to be the best indicator, especially since scabbards might get replaced/swapped. The rectangular beak seems to appear in some late 19th c. barung; the crest coming out from the curved hilt as a solid (often quite triangular) block rather than extending as a more-or-less floral ornament from the tip of the pommel is a 20th c. development.

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Aswell as that then im told the smaller blades tend to be older??

Size and shape of the blades do vary. Very large or very slender blades are likely to be less old (i.e. not antique) but there may be exceptions...

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The use of silver in the fittings can mean its older.

Silver (or at least silver plate) is pretty much standard for traditional barung regardless of age, even for plain warrior pieces. There are some antique examples with brass sleeves though.

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And am i right in saying aswell that the use of mother on pearl on the scabbard denotes its most likely 20th century??

Yes.

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Anything else anyone know of that helps date these???

Wear/patina, wood quality, carving quality, etc.

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For some reason the pics ive attached have been put into wrong order

You need to load them up seperately if you want to show them in any given order.

Regards,
Kai

Spunjer · 15th November 2010, 03:23 AM

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Both scabbards appear to be of good quality. Tips(feet) of both scabbards have been broken off (happens a lot); the Tausug(?) piece with another break on the other side of the throat.

Actually kai, the scabbard toe on the first one was designed to match the hilt, which is pungkol (limbless is it?) style, one that doesn't have a beak nor a crest. So i'm pretty sure the scabbard is original to the blade on this one.

Battara · 15th November 2010, 04:11 AM

I'm with Spunger on the first barong. A lot of fighting blades use this style of pommel.

However I agree with Kai on the second in that the pommel may well be a replacement, especially since it does not quite match the blade or scabbard. Some good observations.

VANDOO · 15th November 2010, 05:05 AM

NICE BARONGS

IN YOUR SECOND SET OF PICTURES THE TOP PICTURE HAS TWO WOVEN BANDS AROUND THE METAL GRIP. I RECENTLY SAW A SIMULAR EXAMPLE AND THE OWNER SAID IT WAS MADE OF WOVEN HUMAN HAIR LIKELY A FAMILY MEMBER OR ANCESTOR. HE SAID PERHAPS IT WAS A SORT OF TAISMAN OR CHARM FOR PROTECTION, SORT OF A WAY TO TAKE FAMILY OR ANCESTORS TO BATTLE WITH YOU. I HAVE NOT READ THIS ABOUT THE MORO BUT IT COULD COME FROM AN OLDER TRIBAL BELIEF. I HAVE HEARD SOMETHING SIMULAR REGARDING CERTIAN KERIS HANDLES IN BALI AND DID SEE THE HUMAN HAIR.
PLEASE TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THEM WITH GOOD MAGNIFICATION AND CHECK AND LET US KNOW WHAT YOU FIND. IF ANY OF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY INFO ON THIS PLEASE JUMP IN AS IT IS A NEW BIT OF INFO TO ME AT LEAST AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF ITS TRUE OR FALSE. THE ONE I SAW SEEMED TO HAVE A COATING OF SOMETHING TO SECURE AND PROTECT THE HAIR AND I HAD NO LOUPE WITH ME SO COULDN'T TELL MUCH BUT LOOKED VERY SIMULAR TO YOUR EXAMPLE. THANKS IN ADVANCE

Robert · 15th November 2010, 06:00 AM

Hello Vandoo, Are you referring to bands like these? These are on a barong in my collection but they seem to be coated with what feels to be some sort of wax or resin (as well as dust) which makes it hard to really tell what they are made of. Tomorrow I will try to put it under magnification and see if I can tell more about its composition.

Robert

carlitobrigante · 15th November 2010, 03:16 PM

great info guys, really appreciated. Will post some better pics when the first one pictured arrives, the other landed with me the other day.

VANDOO · 15th November 2010, 06:57 PM

YES BANDS LIKE THOSE.

WITH THAT MANY BANDS THOUGH THEY MAY NOT ALL BE HAIR OR IT MAY JUST HAVE SOME MIXED IN IF ITS THERE. THE ONE I SAW WAS SMALL AND UNIFORM IN COLOR AND MATERIAL.
I HAD ALWAYS JUST ASSUMED THE ONLY PURPOSE THESE FIBER BANDS SERVED WAS TO IMPROVE THE GRIP OR POSSIBLY COVER A SEAM. I FURTHER ASSUMED SOME KIND OF PLANT FIBER CORD WAS USED FOR THE PURPOSE. IT IS LIKELY IN MOST CASES OR PERHAPS IN MORE RECENT TIMES PLANT FIBER IS USED. BUT THE POSSIBILITY DOES EXHIST THAT WOVEN HUMAN HAIR MAY BE USED OR HAVE BEEN USED. SO ITS WORTH TAKEING A CLOSER LOOK AND SEEING IF SUCH EXAMPLES ARE IN OUR COLLECTIONS AND TO LOOK FOR WRITEN REFRENCES TO IT.
HUMAN HAIR DOES HAVE SIGNIFICANCE IN MOST HUMAN SOCIETY EVEN MY MOM HAD A SMALL TUFT OF MY HAIR FROM WHEN I WAS A BABY AS A KEEPSAKE. I MENTIONED THE KERIS HANDLES IN BALI AND THEY SAID THE HAIR USUALLY WAS SUPPLIED BY A FEMALE MEMBER OF THE FAMILY. I AM SURE THERE ARE OTHER EXAMPLES OF THIS TO BE FOUND. THE ONE I LOOKED AT WAS COVERED WITH SOMETHING BUT IT WAS VERY FINE FIBER OR HAIR NOT THICK LIKE ANIMAL HAIR OR MOST PLANT FIBERS.

15th November 2010, 06:00 AM	#5
Robert (deceased) Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Vandoo, Are you referring to bands like these? These are on a barong in my collection but they seem to be coated with what feels to be some sort of wax or resin (as well as dust) which makes it hard to really tell what they are made of. Tomorrow I will try to put it under magnification and see if I can tell more about its composition. Robert Attached Images

15th November 2010, 04:11 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,363	I'm with Spunger on the first barong. A lot of fighting blades use this style of pommel. However I agree with Kai on the second in that the pommel may well be a replacement, especially since it does not quite match the blade or scabbard. Some good observations.

15th November 2010, 05:05 AM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	NICE BARONGS IN YOUR SECOND SET OF PICTURES THE TOP PICTURE HAS TWO WOVEN BANDS AROUND THE METAL GRIP. I RECENTLY SAW A SIMULAR EXAMPLE AND THE OWNER SAID IT WAS MADE OF WOVEN HUMAN HAIR LIKELY A FAMILY MEMBER OR ANCESTOR. HE SAID PERHAPS IT WAS A SORT OF TAISMAN OR CHARM FOR PROTECTION, SORT OF A WAY TO TAKE FAMILY OR ANCESTORS TO BATTLE WITH YOU. I HAVE NOT READ THIS ABOUT THE MORO BUT IT COULD COME FROM AN OLDER TRIBAL BELIEF. I HAVE HEARD SOMETHING SIMULAR REGARDING CERTIAN KERIS HANDLES IN BALI AND DID SEE THE HUMAN HAIR. PLEASE TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THEM WITH GOOD MAGNIFICATION AND CHECK AND LET US KNOW WHAT YOU FIND. IF ANY OF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY INFO ON THIS PLEASE JUMP IN AS IT IS A NEW BIT OF INFO TO ME AT LEAST AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF ITS TRUE OR FALSE. THE ONE I SAW SEEMED TO HAVE A COATING OF SOMETHING TO SECURE AND PROTECT THE HAIR AND I HAD NO LOUPE WITH ME SO COULDN'T TELL MUCH BUT LOOKED VERY SIMULAR TO YOUR EXAMPLE. THANKS IN ADVANCE

15th November 2010, 03:16 PM	#6
carlitobrigante Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Solihull, UK Posts: 81	great info guys, really appreciated. Will post some better pics when the first one pictured arrives, the other landed with me the other day.

15th November 2010, 06:57 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	YES BANDS LIKE THOSE. WITH THAT MANY BANDS THOUGH THEY MAY NOT ALL BE HAIR OR IT MAY JUST HAVE SOME MIXED IN IF ITS THERE. THE ONE I SAW WAS SMALL AND UNIFORM IN COLOR AND MATERIAL. I HAD ALWAYS JUST ASSUMED THE ONLY PURPOSE THESE FIBER BANDS SERVED WAS TO IMPROVE THE GRIP OR POSSIBLY COVER A SEAM. I FURTHER ASSUMED SOME KIND OF PLANT FIBER CORD WAS USED FOR THE PURPOSE. IT IS LIKELY IN MOST CASES OR PERHAPS IN MORE RECENT TIMES PLANT FIBER IS USED. BUT THE POSSIBILITY DOES EXHIST THAT WOVEN HUMAN HAIR MAY BE USED OR HAVE BEEN USED. SO ITS WORTH TAKEING A CLOSER LOOK AND SEEING IF SUCH EXAMPLES ARE IN OUR COLLECTIONS AND TO LOOK FOR WRITEN REFRENCES TO IT. HUMAN HAIR DOES HAVE SIGNIFICANCE IN MOST HUMAN SOCIETY EVEN MY MOM HAD A SMALL TUFT OF MY HAIR FROM WHEN I WAS A BABY AS A KEEPSAKE. I MENTIONED THE KERIS HANDLES IN BALI AND THEY SAID THE HAIR USUALLY WAS SUPPLIED BY A FEMALE MEMBER OF THE FAMILY. I AM SURE THERE ARE OTHER EXAMPLES OF THIS TO BE FOUND. THE ONE I LOOKED AT WAS COVERED WITH SOMETHING BUT IT WAS VERY FINE FIBER OR HAIR NOT THICK LIKE ANIMAL HAIR OR MOST PLANT FIBERS.