Yataghan Needing Translation (Ivory-Coral)

laEspadaAncha · 14th November 2010, 12:56 AM

Beautiful yat, Jose...

I know you had your eyes on a coral/ivory mounted example for some time - was it this particular one?

Battara · 14th November 2010, 04:24 AM

Well I had one I got for dirt about 15 years ago and sold it. Regretted it ever since. This one is the same type I wanted to replace, but it is bigger in blade and hilt size.

I have another in the works that I am paying off. I will post it when I get it (also wanted this other type for years but could not afford it).

Anyway, I saw this one on Cowan's and gave it a shot. Bullseye!

Zifir · 18th November 2010, 11:23 PM

Greetings from a Turkish reader and 'iyd mubarak to everyone,

For the first inscription I can add the beginning and the end,

AMEL-I AL HADJ MUSTAFA SAHEB WA MALEK HUSSEIN AGHA

MADE BY AL HADJ MUSTAFA OWNER HUSSEIN AGHA

The rest is:
"La feta ila Ali la seyf ila zulfikar"

There is no hero like Ali, no sword like zulfikar

"Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, and Kıtmir." The names of the seven sleepers and their dog

and the date which Dom has already read.

Best,

Zifir

Battara · 19th November 2010, 03:13 AM

Zukran Zifir!

I was hoping you would chime in and help me/us.

I am indebted to both you and Dom - I bow in your presences!

Oh yes, forgot to mention that the blade is 26 inches (65 cm) long and the ivory ears are 4.5 inches (11.25 cm) across. Big sucker!

Battara · 19th November 2010, 03:41 AM

This translations raise at least 2 questions:

1. Since this praises Ali, would this mean that the owner was a Shi'ite?

2. Would these 7 sleepers be the 7 Imams hidden by God (according to the "Seveners" branch of Shi'ite Islam)?

Zulfikar I assume is the sword of the Prophet (peace be upon him) that had a nick in the tip.

Zifir · 19th November 2010, 09:41 AM

Battara,
I don't think the references to Hz. Ali necessarily makes the owner of this yatağan a shia since bravery of Ali and his valour in battle are common themes in Islamic literature. (by the way zulfikar was Ali's sword). But the title of the owner "Ağa/Agha" tell us that he was possibly from the military class, that title was usually used for janissaries.

For the seven sleepers, I am not really sure, but there was a similar discussion in this forum and Teodor offered an explanation based on his talks with a Bulgarian scientist, you can find it here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=sleepers

Best,

Zifir

Battara · 19th November 2010, 05:06 PM

Again thank you Zifir, very helpful.

In many cases in the Balkans, "Muslims" have either adopted or kept old Christian custom, ritual, or stories.

As far as a Jannisary is concerned, I know that Mahmud II destroyed the Jannisary class in I think 1826. But to know that this may have been a military class who owned this is great!

18th November 2010, 11:23 PM	#3
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Greetings from a Turkish reader and 'iyd mubarak to everyone, For the first inscription I can add the beginning and the end, AMEL-I AL HADJ MUSTAFA SAHEB WA MALEK HUSSEIN AGHA MADE BY AL HADJ MUSTAFA OWNER HUSSEIN AGHA The rest is: "La feta ila Ali la seyf ila zulfikar" There is no hero like Ali, no sword like zulfikar "Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, and Kıtmir." The names of the seven sleepers and their dog and the date which Dom has already read. Best, Zifir Attached Images

19th November 2010, 09:41 AM	#6
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Battara, I don't think the references to Hz. Ali necessarily makes the owner of this yatağan a shia since bravery of Ali and his valour in battle are common themes in Islamic literature. (by the way zulfikar was Ali's sword). But the title of the owner "Ağa/Agha" tell us that he was possibly from the military class, that title was usually used for janissaries. For the seven sleepers, I am not really sure, but there was a similar discussion in this forum and Teodor offered an explanation based on his talks with a Bulgarian scientist, you can find it here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=sleepers Best, Zifir Last edited by Zifir; 19th November 2010 at 06:31 PM.

14th November 2010, 12:56 AM	#1
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Beautiful yat, Jose... I know you had your eyes on a coral/ivory mounted example for some time - was it this particular one?

14th November 2010, 04:24 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Well I had one I got for dirt about 15 years ago and sold it. Regretted it ever since. This one is the same type I wanted to replace, but it is bigger in blade and hilt size. I have another in the works that I am paying off. I will post it when I get it (also wanted this other type for years but could not afford it). Anyway, I saw this one on Cowan's and gave it a shot. Bullseye!

19th November 2010, 03:13 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Zukran Zifir! I was hoping you would chime in and help me/us. I am indebted to both you and Dom - I bow in your presences! Oh yes, forgot to mention that the blade is 26 inches (65 cm) long and the ivory ears are 4.5 inches (11.25 cm) across. Big sucker!

19th November 2010, 03:41 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	This translations raise at least 2 questions: 1. Since this praises Ali, would this mean that the owner was a Shi'ite? 2. Would these 7 sleepers be the 7 Imams hidden by God (according to the "Seveners" branch of Shi'ite Islam)? Zulfikar I assume is the sword of the Prophet (peace be upon him) that had a nick in the tip.

19th November 2010, 05:06 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Again thank you Zifir, very helpful. In many cases in the Balkans, "Muslims" have either adopted or kept old Christian custom, ritual, or stories. As far as a Jannisary is concerned, I know that Mahmud II destroyed the Jannisary class in I think 1826. But to know that this may have been a military class who owned this is great!