Ottoman Turkish inscription: Need single word translated

Battara · 9th November 2010, 11:53 PM

Atlantia, I will tell you that probably all but 1 piece in my Philippine collection was brought back from US soldiers during the Philippine-American War and Moro Wars, where hundreds of thousands of Filipinos and Moros died, making many of the pieces I have or had being off the bodies of dead Filipinos.

I still collect for the artwork and history involved. This includes remembering the honored dead on all sides.

Atlantia · 10th November 2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Atlantia, I will tell you that probably all but 1 piece in my Philippine collection was brought back from US soldiers during the Philippine-American War and Moro Wars, where hundreds of thousands of Filipinos and Moros died, making many of the pieces I have or had being off the bodies of dead Filipinos.

I still collect for the artwork and history involved. This includes remembering the honored dead on all sides.

It's often the way here too, many foreign weapons are trophies brought back from conflicts past.
I think It's important to remember the context in which these may have or definately did come to us.
These things we collect besides everything else, are often 'moments' in history.

On a lighter note, I've just sent pictures of a the sword to a collector/seller in Georgia, so if there is a slim chance that (as has been suggested) the name is of Georgian origin, then hopefull this will tell me.

Atlantia · 19th November 2010, 07:52 PM

Georgian collector says not Georgian. He says its Arabic.
So the plot thickens!
So, to recap. We've had suggestions that it might be Turkish, Georgian, or Arabic. But every time I show it to someone who reads one of those languages, they say they think the missing word is one of the other options.
So frustrating, I'm pretty confused at this point

P.S. I wonder if it could be a abbreviated name? Do arabic characters lend themselves to being written in the form of a monogram?

Atlantia · 27th November 2010, 09:19 PM

BUMP, Anyone?
Still no answers on this one

Atlantia · 5th December 2010, 12:21 PM

A kind chap who has been trying to help with this has had the following idea. Perhaps it can help lead us to an answer:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahil A.

The only word that come to my mind for the missing word is بحر which means ocean, sea!

I know its a stretch, but could our maker have been a second generation foreign bladesmith with a name that hinted at his foreign heritage?
As in 'from across the sea' or similar?

Regards
Gene

Atlantia · 5th January 2011, 09:16 PM

Well there have been some developments on this, so I thought I'd add them here just in case anyone apart from me is interested

Firstly, in addition to those here who have helped, I need to thank: A. Alnakas, Rahil A., Sancar Ozer and Manouchehr M. Khorasani for their kind help in working on this.

The options now seem to be that it says either 'Shamil Mohammed' or 'Amal-e Mohammed'.

Also, it has been 'featured' on the website of Mr Khorasani.

(just scroll down below the beautiful Tulwar)

LINKY

This sword is a favourite of mine and I think that I now have as much information about it as I'm likely to get.
So essentially I am content now. There is nothing more frustrating than knowing you should be able to solve the clues about a favourite weapon and not being able to do so. I think its important to try and tell their story if you can.
These weapons are the footnotes on the pages of history, albeit inked in blood.

Atlantia · 22nd May 2012, 09:47 PM

Just noticed Manouchehr has revamped his excellent site so my link doesn't work. Here is the new link to my Kindjal

Dom · 23rd May 2012, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Well there have been some developments on this, so I thought I'd add them here just in case anyone apart from me is interested

Firstly, in addition to those here who have helped, I need to thank: A. Alnakas, Rahil A., Sancar Ozer and Manouchehr M. Khorasani for their kind help in working on this.

The options now seem to be that it says either 'Shamil Mohammed' or 'Amal-e Mohammed'.

Hi Atlantia
nothing more than a confirmation for what the other formites, have already said

AMAL MOHAMED either MADE BY MOHAMED

only comment from my translator; very unusual to find a date without the mention "SANA" (year) ...

à +

Dom

19th November 2010, 07:52 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Georgian collector says not Georgian. He says its Arabic. So the plot thickens! So, to recap. We've had suggestions that it might be Turkish, Georgian, or Arabic. But every time I show it to someone who reads one of those languages, they say they think the missing word is one of the other options. So frustrating, I'm pretty confused at this point P.S. I wonder if it could be a abbreviated name? Do arabic characters lend themselves to being written in the form of a monogram? Last edited by Atlantia; 20th November 2010 at 10:18 AM.

5th January 2011, 09:16 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Well there have been some developments on this, so I thought I'd add them here just in case anyone apart from me is interested Firstly, in addition to those here who have helped, I need to thank: A. Alnakas, Rahil A., Sancar Ozer and Manouchehr M. Khorasani for their kind help in working on this. The options now seem to be that it says either 'Shamil Mohammed' or 'Amal-e Mohammed'. Also, it has been 'featured' on the website of Mr Khorasani. (just scroll down below the beautiful Tulwar) LINKY This sword is a favourite of mine and I think that I now have as much information about it as I'm likely to get. So essentially I am content now. There is nothing more frustrating than knowing you should be able to solve the clues about a favourite weapon and not being able to do so. I think its important to try and tell their story if you can. These weapons are the footnotes on the pages of history, albeit inked in blood. Last edited by Atlantia; 5th January 2011 at 09:30 PM.

9th November 2010, 11:53 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	Atlantia, I will tell you that probably all but 1 piece in my Philippine collection was brought back from US soldiers during the Philippine-American War and Moro Wars, where hundreds of thousands of Filipinos and Moros died, making many of the pieces I have or had being off the bodies of dead Filipinos. I still collect for the artwork and history involved. This includes remembering the honored dead on all sides.

27th November 2010, 09:19 PM	#4
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	BUMP, Anyone? Still no answers on this one

22nd May 2012, 09:47 PM	#7
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Just noticed Manouchehr has revamped his excellent site so my link doesn't work. Here is the new link to my Kindjal