Marks in European sword

Dmitry · 28th October 2010, 06:30 PM

The blade conforms to the Portuguese 1806 pattern sabers, and is probably English-made, which is not surprising, considering the anorexic state of the Portuguese manufacturing at that time, and the British friendship [some would say domination]. I have seen this mark on the tangs of the English blades exported to the US in the first quarter of 1800s. The hilt is in the British 1821 style.

Ron Anderson · 28th October 2010, 11:14 PM

Hi

Yes, I agree - this sword of English origin, certainly the hilt. I have seen quite a few Portugese 1821 pattern swords. These it seems were imported from England. Usually they have the standard English blade you find in the 1821 pattern cavalry sword too.

I would guess this earlier blade was re-hilted after 1821.

Jim McDougall · 29th October 2010, 03:20 AM

I'm with you guys on the English hilt, and the likely Portuguese association, and in my opinion the blade is probably Solingen of late 18th to early 19th century. The talismanic sun with face was likely once accompanied by the usual celestial images. The stamped WH at the forte seems to suggest Solingen as well and Dmitry makes a good point on these blades being exported widely, including to the US via England.

The British 1821 patterns usually had the standard hollow ground blade with the exception of some with pipeback type blades, but these multiple fullers were typically German as far as I know. Interesting to wonder how this type of blade might have been coupled with this hilt, but as noted, the export of these weapons was considerable, and these kind of hybrids present intriguing potential.

All the best,
Jim

Ron Anderson · 29th October 2010, 03:44 AM

Hi Jim

I think all 1821 pattern swords had the pipeback blade until 1845, and changed thereafter into a similar blade type to the 1845 infantry officer's sword.

In my view, it was a good sword with a nice balance to it.

This particular combination looks quite unwieldy with the blade wider than the hilt. It does not look like a particularly happy match.

28th October 2010, 06:30 PM	#1
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	The blade conforms to the Portuguese 1806 pattern sabers, and is probably English-made, which is not surprising, considering the anorexic state of the Portuguese manufacturing at that time, and the British friendship [some would say domination]. I have seen this mark on the tangs of the English blades exported to the US in the first quarter of 1800s. The hilt is in the British 1821 style.

28th October 2010, 11:14 PM	#2
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Yes, I agree - this sword of English origin, certainly the hilt. I have seen quite a few Portugese 1821 pattern swords. These it seems were imported from England. Usually they have the standard English blade you find in the 1821 pattern cavalry sword too. I would guess this earlier blade was re-hilted after 1821.

29th October 2010, 03:20 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,196	I'm with you guys on the English hilt, and the likely Portuguese association, and in my opinion the blade is probably Solingen of late 18th to early 19th century. The talismanic sun with face was likely once accompanied by the usual celestial images. The stamped WH at the forte seems to suggest Solingen as well and Dmitry makes a good point on these blades being exported widely, including to the US via England. The British 1821 patterns usually had the standard hollow ground blade with the exception of some with pipeback type blades, but these multiple fullers were typically German as far as I know. Interesting to wonder how this type of blade might have been coupled with this hilt, but as noted, the export of these weapons was considerable, and these kind of hybrids present intriguing potential. All the best, Jim

29th October 2010, 03:44 AM	#4
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Jim I think all 1821 pattern swords had the pipeback blade until 1845, and changed thereafter into a similar blade type to the 1845 infantry officer's sword. In my view, it was a good sword with a nice balance to it. This particular combination looks quite unwieldy with the blade wider than the hilt. It does not look like a particularly happy match.