Marks in European sword

Jim McDougall · 24th October 2010, 08:00 PM

Hi Fernando,
You are a man of honor, and carry out your promises, well noting of course that any identification of this sword without any visual help is pure folly. The three bar hilt on military sabres from late 18th into the 19th century would apply to any number of swords from the entirety of western armies.

Since Solingen was supplying blades for the majority, we might presume it is a Solingen blade, the mark WI at the ricasso, depending on configuration may well be an acronym or initials for the unit, or organization for whom the sword was in use. The sun with face and rays is of course from the talismanic astral symbols placed on European blades most commonly in the 18th century, but in degree into the 19th.

Thats about all the ideas I could venture without any illustrations that might lend to the possibilities of origin, otherwise its simply a military sabre of about a hundred year or more period from any one of dozens of countries.

Sorry I cant offer more,

All the best,
Jim

fernando · 24th October 2010, 09:21 PM

Hi Jim,
... and you are a kind man, needless to say

.
I am much obliged for your willing contribution to such a lost case.
You are absolutely right in that there were millions of sabres with the "human" sun symbol and zillions with the three bar hilt.
To tell the truth, i knew this was a long shot; hoping that, by some kind of miracle, someone had a sword with the same initials or recalled having seen them out there.
Soon i will visit the owner and check the initials style. Probably they are the signature type and not a maker's mark.
Eventualy also a couple pictures to post here.
Thanks again
Fernando

Ian Knight · 25th October 2010, 05:58 PM

Hello Fernando/Jim,
The only 'WI' that I can find at the moment is 'William Ironside' of England 1708-1709.
I will keep looking.
Ian

fernando · 25th October 2010, 06:04 PM

That was very nice of you, Ian

.
Thanks a lot for your input.

Jim McDougall · 26th October 2010, 12:31 AM

Ian, I wanted to thank you as well. It'll be interesting when we get more information or photos. The only WI that I am aware of is West India (docks) which typically had more cutlass type weapons with the cast iron grips, and most of these had a stirrup grip, though there was one form with another quillon I believe.

All the best,
Jim

Ron Anderson · 26th October 2010, 03:18 AM

Well, of course, without photos, this is pure speculation. But could it be WIV? with the V missing or now faded and gone.

Making this William the fourth, just prior to Victoria. And making this sword an ordinary 1821 pattern cavalry sword.

Or is that just silly?

Jim McDougall · 26th October 2010, 05:25 AM

Not silly at all Ron! All we can do is speculate at this point as we are working virtually in the dark, but that is a well reasoned thought. One thing I had forgotten in the sun face, and while we know this is a well known talismanic blade motif, I just realized that this symbol was also used in the Philippines end of the 19th century by forces I believe in Luzon (not my field so not certain).

The main thing here is input, and its rewarding to see ideas and observations placed .

All the best,
Jim

24th October 2010, 08:00 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,467	Hi Fernando, You are a man of honor, and carry out your promises, well noting of course that any identification of this sword without any visual help is pure folly. The three bar hilt on military sabres from late 18th into the 19th century would apply to any number of swords from the entirety of western armies. Since Solingen was supplying blades for the majority, we might presume it is a Solingen blade, the mark WI at the ricasso, depending on configuration may well be an acronym or initials for the unit, or organization for whom the sword was in use. The sun with face and rays is of course from the talismanic astral symbols placed on European blades most commonly in the 18th century, but in degree into the 19th. Thats about all the ideas I could venture without any illustrations that might lend to the possibilities of origin, otherwise its simply a military sabre of about a hundred year or more period from any one of dozens of countries. Sorry I cant offer more, All the best, Jim

24th October 2010, 09:21 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Jim, ... and you are a kind man, needless to say . I am much obliged for your willing contribution to such a lost case. You are absolutely right in that there were millions of sabres with the "human" sun symbol and zillions with the three bar hilt. To tell the truth, i knew this was a long shot; hoping that, by some kind of miracle, someone had a sword with the same initials or recalled having seen them out there. Soon i will visit the owner and check the initials style. Probably they are the signature type and not a maker's mark. Eventualy also a couple pictures to post here. Thanks again Fernando

25th October 2010, 05:58 PM	#3
Ian Knight Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Sussex, England. Posts: 103	Hello Fernando/Jim, The only 'WI' that I can find at the moment is 'William Ironside' of England 1708-1709. I will keep looking. Ian

25th October 2010, 06:04 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	That was very nice of you, Ian . Thanks a lot for your input.

26th October 2010, 12:31 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,467	Ian, I wanted to thank you as well. It'll be interesting when we get more information or photos. The only WI that I am aware of is West India (docks) which typically had more cutlass type weapons with the cast iron grips, and most of these had a stirrup grip, though there was one form with another quillon I believe. All the best, Jim

26th October 2010, 03:18 AM	#6
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Well, of course, without photos, this is pure speculation. But could it be WIV? with the V missing or now faded and gone. Making this William the fourth, just prior to Victoria. And making this sword an ordinary 1821 pattern cavalry sword. Or is that just silly?

26th October 2010, 05:25 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,467	Not silly at all Ron! All we can do is speculate at this point as we are working virtually in the dark, but that is a well reasoned thought. One thing I had forgotten in the sun face, and while we know this is a well known talismanic blade motif, I just realized that this symbol was also used in the Philippines end of the 19th century by forces I believe in Luzon (not my field so not certain). The main thing here is input, and its rewarding to see ideas and observations placed . All the best, Jim