New Kilij

tom hyle · 18th June 2005, 11:34 AM

Rivetted scales get loose all the time; the main culprits are trauma and warping/expanding/shrinking of the fibrous organnic grip material from moisture exchange (mostly with the air). This type of sword tends to have a short (ie not full length) flat tang that may or may not be full width, rivetted to a plate that is soldered to the tangband. An arrangement like this seems more liable to wiggling than a true flat tang. If you don't want to tighten the rivets (and the holes may be wallowed out; one sure looks it, which complicates this) I suppose you might explore if you can do any good with wedges, shims, or injected adhesive/filler of some sort.
M Carter; what kind of pitch do you start with, and where do you get it, please

To the side, I have seen the pitch inside a tulwar handle be stabilized re-bar style with a matrix of wiggly copper wire.
Is a false edge that is not "dropped" (ie widened) a yelman? I have always heard and read the term yelman in association with the dropped edge.

M.carter · 18th June 2005, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

Rivetted scales get loose all the time; the main culprits are trauma and warping/expanding/shrinking of the fibrous organnic grip material from moisture exchange (mostly with the air). This type of sword tends to have a short (ie not full length) flat tang that may or may not be full width, rivetted to a plate that is soldered to the tangband. An arrangement like this seems more liable to wiggling than a true flat tang. If you don't want to tighten the rivets (and the holes may be wallowed out; one sure looks it, which complicates this) I suppose you might explore if you can do any good with wedges, shims, or injected adhesive/filler of some sort.
M Carter; what kind of pitch do you start with, and where do you get it, please

To the side, I have seen the pitch inside a tulwar handle be stabilized re-bar style with a matrix of wiggly copper wire.
Is a false edge that is not "dropped" (ie widened) a yelman? I have always heard and read the term yelman in association with the dropped edge.

Well thats certainly interesting!

Ive never handled a sword with a riveted hilt that was loose (except for crossguards). I get my pitch from an industrial area over here in kuwait. Its black, oily and very smelly I must say.

Rick · 18th June 2005, 03:58 PM

Mark , how did the re-mount of the tulwar blade work out ?
Nice and snug now ?

The grip scales on my karud are as tight as when they were placed there some 150-200 years ago .
They were applied with mastic and rivets .
I have seen some examples of loose grip scales but usually these are on knives/swords that depended solely on rivets to hold them on , many of the scales being wood .

M.carter · 18th June 2005, 04:51 PM

Well, it was a messy affair trying to get the resin inside the hilt, but there it is, on my school desk, drying, I shall touch it again tommorow, see how good it is.

ariel · 18th June 2005, 05:03 PM

Gentlemen, is there a synthetic material easily obtainable in legitimate stores that could be used to fix the crossguard? I shudder to imagine myself boiling an explosive mix of exotic and flammable ingredients in our kitchen. I will be kicked out of the house by She Who Must Be Obeyed if I even mention doing something like that ("....eye of newt and toe of frog, wool of bat and tongue of dog...")
The Syrian/Egyptian origin is entirely feasible: I have a Syrian Shamshir with very similar fuller arrangement. I cleaned he blade after I got it (was quite dirty and even had a faint patches of active rust) and did emergency oiling. I'll try to clean it better and may even try to etch it a bit to look for damascus pattern.
As to the wobbly handle, the scales are just a little wobbly: the lower rivet is not very secure and, I guess, the horn got a little shrunken and deformed after so many years. If I can pour some glue-ish compound into the crossguard, it wll certainly solve the scales problem as well.

18th June 2005, 11:34 AM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Rivetted scales get loose all the time; the main culprits are trauma and warping/expanding/shrinking of the fibrous organnic grip material from moisture exchange (mostly with the air). This type of sword tends to have a short (ie not full length) flat tang that may or may not be full width, rivetted to a plate that is soldered to the tangband. An arrangement like this seems more liable to wiggling than a true flat tang. If you don't want to tighten the rivets (and the holes may be wallowed out; one sure looks it, which complicates this) I suppose you might explore if you can do any good with wedges, shims, or injected adhesive/filler of some sort. M Carter; what kind of pitch do you start with, and where do you get it, please To the side, I have seen the pitch inside a tulwar handle be stabilized re-bar style with a matrix of wiggly copper wire. Is a false edge that is not "dropped" (ie widened) a yelman? I have always heard and read the term yelman in association with the dropped edge.

18th June 2005, 03:58 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,348	Mark , how did the re-mount of the tulwar blade work out ? Nice and snug now ? The grip scales on my karud are as tight as when they were placed there some 150-200 years ago . They were applied with mastic and rivets . I have seen some examples of loose grip scales but usually these are on knives/swords that depended solely on rivets to hold them on , many of the scales being wood .

18th June 2005, 04:51 PM	#4
M.carter Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 176	Well, it was a messy affair trying to get the resin inside the hilt, but there it is, on my school desk, drying, I shall touch it again tommorow, see how good it is.

18th June 2005, 05:03 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Gentlemen, is there a synthetic material easily obtainable in legitimate stores that could be used to fix the crossguard? I shudder to imagine myself boiling an explosive mix of exotic and flammable ingredients in our kitchen. I will be kicked out of the house by She Who Must Be Obeyed if I even mention doing something like that ("....eye of newt and toe of frog, wool of bat and tongue of dog...") The Syrian/Egyptian origin is entirely feasible: I have a Syrian Shamshir with very similar fuller arrangement. I cleaned he blade after I got it (was quite dirty and even had a faint patches of active rust) and did emergency oiling. I'll try to clean it better and may even try to etch it a bit to look for damascus pattern. As to the wobbly handle, the scales are just a little wobbly: the lower rivet is not very secure and, I guess, the horn got a little shrunken and deformed after so many years. If I can pour some glue-ish compound into the crossguard, it wll certainly solve the scales problem as well.