Swept Hilt Rapier – Urgent help needed?

Dmitry · 12th October 2010, 03:04 PM

My $.02 which should be taken with a hefty pinch of salt. I would wager that not only the grip wiring, but the whole grip is a replacement. I may be wrong, but the hilt construction appears unusual, and I wouldn't be surprised if, upon close examination, it was discovered that a couple of branches were removed. The condition of the blade does not correspond with the condition of the hilt. Whether these were period alterations, I can't say.

Dmitry · 12th October 2010, 06:11 PM

This is how this sword may have looked like originally.

Cathey · 12th October 2010, 09:28 PM

Hi, the sword has never had intersecting parts between the rings and this is quite common of swords of this age. The blade has been heavily cleaned/buffed. I am resonably confident in the blade as it is extremely long and flexible. Most copies I have seen are considerably shorter.

Cheers Cathey

Dmitry · 12th October 2010, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathey

Hi, the sword has never had intersecting parts between the rings and this is quite common of swords of this age. The blade has been heavily cleaned/buffed. I am resonably confident in the blade as it is extremely long and flexible. Most copies I have seen are considerably shorter.

Cheers Cathey

I did not suggest that the blade or the hilt were replicas.
Again [in my meager experience] unaltered period examples of this style, without the rear branches, are uncommon.
I guess I was lead astray by the title of this thread - "Urgent Help Needed".
You appear to be quite confident that the sword is right. Please post some better photos of the hilt, once you acquire it!

fernando · 12th October 2010, 09:48 PM

Hi Cathey,
Let's hope further coments to be posted before Friday !
Taking into account that Dmitry knows a lot about these things ... i know nothing. But i must say that this sword looks unsuspicious to me

If i was offered such piece, i would most probably buy it ... if i had the money

But by no means you should take my impression into a valued factor!

Cathey · 12th October 2010, 10:17 PM

Hi Dmitry,

no you have not misunderstood me, I always have doubts. The Sword was dropped off for inspection last night and we had to take photos under less than ideal conditions. The more I handle it the more I like the blade which has been mechanically cleaned. I have found this not to be uncommon in swords out of the UK where I suspect this come from; however I question why the hilt did not require the same treatment and wonder if this is not a marriage. In Australia we do not see many rapiers in the flesh and I have been offered this sword previously and walked away. I will see if my Rex can try and take some better pictures today while I am at work weather permitting. Sadly I would love it to be right and hope that I am not talking myself into that position.

Cheers Cathey

Cathey · 13th October 2010, 03:54 AM

Hi Guys

Just an update, we have now had the sword inspected by another collector who is also a specialist in metal work. This gentleman has gone all over the sword with a magnifying glass and advised that in his opinion the sword has been hammered in a forge and has no modern welds or other evidence of modern manufacture. He also adds that it has had no branches removed and is his opinion the blade is the correct fit for this hilt and appears contemporary to the blade. On the basis of this advice I am leaning towards taking a chance on this one.

Cheers Cathey

cornelistromp · 13th October 2010, 02:26 PM

Hi Cathey,

the Rapier(rapier if >111cm?) looks fine and homogeneous to me.
Blade is OK, lack of counter guard and only chisselwork at the show-side is also know on this type of rapier. Gripbinding is probably a replacement?!?!
however.... Please do have a close look at the pommel and if the decoration of the pommel has been done by the same tools as the the quillon. the reason I do mention it is that the pommel is of an earlier type and you would expect a pommel shape similar/matching to the quillon finals!
(it may be belonging to this piece but it will not surprise me if it is a replacement.)

regards from Holland

12th October 2010, 06:11 PM	#2
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	This is how this sword may have looked like originally. Attached Images

12th October 2010, 10:17 PM	#6
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Rapier Hi Dmitry, no you have not misunderstood me, I always have doubts. The Sword was dropped off for inspection last night and we had to take photos under less than ideal conditions. The more I handle it the more I like the blade which has been mechanically cleaned. I have found this not to be uncommon in swords out of the UK where I suspect this come from; however I question why the hilt did not require the same treatment and wonder if this is not a marriage. In Australia we do not see many rapiers in the flesh and I have been offered this sword previously and walked away. I will see if my Rex can try and take some better pictures today while I am at work weather permitting. Sadly I would love it to be right and hope that I am not talking myself into that position. Cheers Cathey

13th October 2010, 03:54 AM	#7
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Rapier ? Hi Guys Just an update, we have now had the sword inspected by another collector who is also a specialist in metal work. This gentleman has gone all over the sword with a magnifying glass and advised that in his opinion the sword has been hammered in a forge and has no modern welds or other evidence of modern manufacture. He also adds that it has had no branches removed and is his opinion the blade is the correct fit for this hilt and appears contemporary to the blade. On the basis of this advice I am leaning towards taking a chance on this one. Cheers Cathey

12th October 2010, 03:04 PM	#1
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	My $.02 which should be taken with a hefty pinch of salt. I would wager that not only the grip wiring, but the whole grip is a replacement. I may be wrong, but the hilt construction appears unusual, and I wouldn't be surprised if, upon close examination, it was discovered that a couple of branches were removed. The condition of the blade does not correspond with the condition of the hilt. Whether these were period alterations, I can't say.

12th October 2010, 09:28 PM	#3
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Hi, the sword has never had intersecting parts between the rings and this is quite common of swords of this age. The blade has been heavily cleaned/buffed. I am resonably confident in the blade as it is extremely long and flexible. Most copies I have seen are considerably shorter. Cheers Cathey

12th October 2010, 09:48 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Cathey, Let's hope further coments to be posted before Friday ! Taking into account that Dmitry knows a lot about these things ... i know nothing. But i must say that this sword looks unsuspicious to me If i was offered such piece, i would most probably buy it ... if i had the money But by no means you should take my impression into a valued factor!

13th October 2010, 02:26 PM	#8
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Cathey, the Rapier(rapier if >111cm?) looks fine and homogeneous to me. Blade is OK, lack of counter guard and only chisselwork at the show-side is also know on this type of rapier. Gripbinding is probably a replacement?!?! however.... Please do have a close look at the pommel and if the decoration of the pommel has been done by the same tools as the the quillon. the reason I do mention it is that the pommel is of an earlier type and you would expect a pommel shape similar/matching to the quillon finals! (it may be belonging to this piece but it will not surprise me if it is a replacement.) regards from Holland