Katzbalgers and Related Landsknecht Swords

broadaxe · 6th October 2010, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Dmitry,

As we all realize, wonders are not exactly common, and so are genuine early pieces on Ebay. If it were not so, everybody paying ten times these sums in leading arms and armor sales would be crazy. In fact, the connoisseur can tell wrong from right and Historismus from Renaissance and only that is what accounts for the prices.

It is a nice Historismus fantasy piece, late 19th c.; this shape of the hilt with rectangular pas d'ane never existed in the early 16th century.

Sorry to bust another myth,
and best,
Michael

Though I have smaller experience I must agree. Saw that when auction was active. The work of the hilt seems superb, but I've never seen an angular side "ring".

Matchlock · 6th October 2010, 01:02 PM

Exactly.

This side 'ring' should rather be called a stirrup.

So Dmitry, better rejoice and sing for not purchasing it. It was not even worth the ebay price but all should have been done at ca. 500 USD. As often on ebay people get carried away in bidding driven by false hopes, thinking they are making a bargain ...

Good and really early items almost never go to ebay but the specialized sales.

Best,
Michael

Pukka Bundook · 6th October 2010, 02:30 PM

Hello Michael, I must say, I have enjoyed this topic!

There is always much to be learned.
Not having anything worthwhile to add, I have kept out of it, but wanted you to know I am here...shuffling around in the background!.....

Matchlock · 6th October 2010, 02:42 PM

Hello Richard,

It's so good to at least read some lines of you after that long silence. Your brilliant queries and comments are much missed here!

Please hang on a bit more than just shuffling in the background ...

Best as always,
Michael

Samik · 6th October 2010, 04:18 PM

Many thanks gentlemen for uploading those marvelous pieces

To contribute I recently got this little gem into my hands called Régi Magyar Fegyverek by János Kalmár. It features a couple of early 16th century Hungarian swords that bear a great deal of "Landsknecht" (and most probably Italian) influence:

Sword of Hungarian monarch Louis II (the young king from Jagellionian dynasty who died at Mohacs in 1526) which looks very much like a period katzbalger:

closeup:

3 Hungarian swords from the first half of 16th century :

closeup:

Note the pallashe-like scabbard. Don't really know if these belong to the original pieces or had been a later addition...
(a bit of OT: they could in fact be an early verion of a pallashe, since such "italianate" sword-hilts were also fashionable on cavalry estocs of the period... some even among ottoman border troops! Still, to my eyes the swords seem a bit shortish for a cavalry weapon...)

Cheers,
Samuel

Matchlock · 6th October 2010, 05:05 PM

Great, Samuel, thank you,

Could you get me a copy of Janos Kalmar's Régi Magyar Fegyverek? I realize there existed an earlier 1970's edition but could not get hold of it. Is this a revised reprint as the original edition contained only very poor b/w photos?

Best,
Michael

Samik · 6th October 2010, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Great, Samuel, thank you,

Could you get me a copy of Janos Kalmar's Régi Magyar Fegyverek? I realize there existed an earlier 1970's edition but could not get hold of it. Is this a revised reprint as the original edition contained only very poor b/w photos?

Best,
Michael

Check your PM

Dmitry · 7th October 2010, 06:38 PM

I'm sorry to say that not sold on the 'historismus' bastard yet. I'm positive I've seen a similar hilt in a museum collection book, described as period. As usual, I don't remember where. Will comb through my library over the next few days.

Matchlock · 7th October 2010, 07:41 PM

Sold Bonhams, London, 29 April 2010.

6th October 2010, 04:18 PM	#5
Samik Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Slovakia Posts: 48	Landsknecht related swords from The historical kingdom of Hungary Many thanks gentlemen for uploading those marvelous pieces To contribute I recently got this little gem into my hands called Régi Magyar Fegyverek by János Kalmár. It features a couple of early 16th century Hungarian swords that bear a great deal of "Landsknecht" (and most probably Italian) influence: Sword of Hungarian monarch Louis II (the young king from Jagellionian dynasty who died at Mohacs in 1526) which looks very much like a period katzbalger: closeup: 3 Hungarian swords from the first half of 16th century : closeup: Note the pallashe-like scabbard. Don't really know if these belong to the original pieces or had been a later addition... (a bit of OT: they could in fact be an early verion of a pallashe, since such "italianate" sword-hilts were also fashionable on cavalry estocs of the period... some even among ottoman border troops! Still, to my eyes the swords seem a bit shortish for a cavalry weapon...) Cheers, Samuel

6th October 2010, 05:05 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Great, Samuel, thank you, Could you get me a copy of Janos Kalmar's Régi Magyar Fegyverek? I realize there existed an earlier 1970's edition but could not get hold of it. Is this a revised reprint as the original edition contained only very poor b/w photos? Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 6th October 2010 at 06:21 PM.

7th October 2010, 07:41 PM	#9
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Sold Bonhams, London, 29 April 2010. Attached Images

6th October 2010, 01:02 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Exactly. This side 'ring' should rather be called a stirrup. So Dmitry, better rejoice and sing for not purchasing it. It was not even worth the ebay price but all should have been done at ca. 500 USD. As often on ebay people get carried away in bidding driven by false hopes, thinking they are making a bargain ... Good and really early items almost never go to ebay but the specialized sales. Best, Michael

6th October 2010, 02:30 PM	#3
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Hello Michael, I must say, I have enjoyed this topic! There is always much to be learned. Not having anything worthwhile to add, I have kept out of it, but wanted you to know I am here...shuffling around in the background!.....

6th October 2010, 02:42 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hello Richard, It's so good to at least read some lines of you after that long silence. Your brilliant queries and comments are much missed here! Please hang on a bit more than just shuffling in the background ... Best as always, Michael

7th October 2010, 06:38 PM	#8
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I'm sorry to say that not sold on the 'historismus' bastard yet. I'm positive I've seen a similar hilt in a museum collection book, described as period. As usual, I don't remember where. Will comb through my library over the next few days.