Gaucho knife for ID please: Argentine 'La Movediza'

Atlantia · 2nd October 2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Hi Atlantia,

I believe La Modediza to be one of the Tandil-based factories that has been producing factory cutlery since the mid-century. I would think yours dates from ca. 1950-1960. While not necessarily rare nor unusual, these provide a nice study of form of the ubiquitous knife type traditionally associated with the Gaucho culture (I have one myself from another Tandil manufacturer), and while not all that old are more collectible than contemporary examples to be sure.

Hi laEspadaAncha,

Thanks for the info, thats fine with me, I was kinda hoping it would be 1950s rather than any later.
One thing that confuses me (if you don't mind another question?)
The marking 'PLATE 800' I assumed meant plated with 800 grade silver, but a scrape of the inner scabbard edge shows no underlaying metal? It seems solid! Am I just not scraping hard enough?

Thanks again
Gene

Lee · 2nd October 2010, 05:48 PM

Plata is silver. Probably solid 80% silver with a little bit of gold overlay.

Atlantia · 2nd October 2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

Plata is silver. Probably solid 80% silver with a little bit of gold overlay.

LOL

Oh yes, it is 'PLATA'
Thanks Lee

laEspadaAncha · 2nd October 2010, 05:58 PM

Hi Gene,

Are you sure it doesn't say, "Plata?" Plata is Spanish for silver, and would denote a lower-grade silver (80% vs. 92.5%).

I've done a little digging since my earlier post, and am under the impression La Movediza stopped manufacturing in 1963. In fact, below is a picture of all the original La Modeviza die stamps, now in the personal collection of the nephew of the founder of La Modeviza.

Your stamp looks like it could be the 3rd from the left on the bottom row (though it's hard to tell for sure given the small image size).

BTW, La Modeviza was the very first cutlery manufacturer established in Tandil. FWIW, Tandil (loosely speaking) is the Argentine-equivalent of Solingen, and it was in fact the WWII-era embargo of German exports that resulted in the formation of Industria Argentina's Tandil-based cutlery center.

Regards,

Chris

laEspadaAncha · 2nd October 2010, 06:00 PM

I see in the ten minutes it took for me to cobble together my last post, the "Plate" vs. "Plata" issue has already been put to rest...

Atlantia · 2nd October 2010, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

I see in the ten minutes it took for me to cobble together my last post, the "Plate" vs. "Plata" issue has already been put to rest...

Thak you so much!

This is just brilliant news all round. Not only is it as old as I dared hope (At least pre 1963) Also solid continental silver mounts, not silver 'plate' (DOH!) as I thought when I bought it!!
Brilliant!
Are those stamps in chronological order, by any chance?
If so, which end is earliest?

Best
Gene

Chris Evans · 3rd October 2010, 03:03 AM

Gene,

Your have a nice collectable piece in that knife and Chris pretty much covered it well.

Here is what the manufacturer was named after: http://www.lapiedramovediza.com.ar/

The article tells us that the rock tumbled down in 1912 and was replaced by a replica in 2007.

Cheers
Chris

Atlantia · 8th October 2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Gene,

Your have a nice collectable piece in that knife and Chris pretty much covered it well.

Here is what the manufacturer was named after: http://www.lapiedramovediza.com.ar/

The article tells us that the rock tumbled down in 1912 and was replaced by a replica in 2007.

Cheers
Chris

Hi Chris,
So 'La Movediza' is a moving rock?
What is the article saying, the rock pivotted and moved, then eventually fell?

Best
Gene

Chris Evans · 10th October 2010, 12:08 AM

Hi Gene,

That 300 ton rock, a freak of nature, stood in a precarious state of equilibrium for a very long time, centuries, maybe even longer, until it lost whatever little support it relied upon and tumbled down the cliff. As to its name ` La Movediza' I am at a loss: In the local Araucan indian language, the word `Tandil' and the name of the town, refers to an unstable rock. When translated into Spanish probably Movediza was the best they could come up with, although it is unclear to me whether it ever trembled or gave any indication of movement. There is mention of an unconfirmed report that the terrible dictator, Juan Manuel Rosas, for reasons unknown, tried to knock the stone down but was unsuccessful, despite using a very large number of horses.

As an aside, Rosas who ruled with a very bloody hand, had strict regulations about knives and facons amongst his workers and even had himself flogged for wearing a knife due to a lapse of memory. His intention was to show that no one, not even himself was above the law. Rosas was an extraordinarily tough and ruthless warrior and reputedly the finest horseman in that part of the world. He gained great notoriety for his rule through terror and the use of death suqads. Nevertheless, he manage to create a basic Argentinean sense of identity, out of anarchy, and which later heads of state amplified to create a unified nation.

It is worth reading about his life and times to gain a broader understanding of 19th century Pampean life and the role of the knife.

Cheers
Chris

2nd October 2010, 05:48 PM	#2
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 940	Plata is silver. Probably solid 80% silver with a little bit of gold overlay.

2nd October 2010, 05:58 PM	#4
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Gene, Are you sure it doesn't say, "Plata?" Plata is Spanish for silver, and would denote a lower-grade silver (80% vs. 92.5%). I've done a little digging since my earlier post, and am under the impression La Movediza stopped manufacturing in 1963. In fact, below is a picture of all the original La Modeviza die stamps, now in the personal collection of the nephew of the founder of La Modeviza. Your stamp looks like it could be the 3rd from the left on the bottom row (though it's hard to tell for sure given the small image size). BTW, La Modeviza was the very first cutlery manufacturer established in Tandil. FWIW, Tandil (loosely speaking) is the Argentine-equivalent of Solingen, and it was in fact the WWII-era embargo of German exports that resulted in the formation of Industria Argentina's Tandil-based cutlery center. Regards, Chris

2nd October 2010, 06:00 PM	#5
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	I see in the ten minutes it took for me to cobble together my last post, the "Plate" vs. "Plata" issue has already been put to rest...

3rd October 2010, 03:03 AM	#7
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Gene, Your have a nice collectable piece in that knife and Chris pretty much covered it well. Here is what the manufacturer was named after: http://www.lapiedramovediza.com.ar/ The article tells us that the rock tumbled down in 1912 and was replaced by a replica in 2007. Cheers Chris

10th October 2010, 12:08 AM	#9
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Hi Gene, That 300 ton rock, a freak of nature, stood in a precarious state of equilibrium for a very long time, centuries, maybe even longer, until it lost whatever little support it relied upon and tumbled down the cliff. As to its name ` La Movediza' I am at a loss: In the local Araucan indian language, the word `Tandil' and the name of the town, refers to an unstable rock. When translated into Spanish probably Movediza was the best they could come up with, although it is unclear to me whether it ever trembled or gave any indication of movement. There is mention of an unconfirmed report that the terrible dictator, Juan Manuel Rosas, for reasons unknown, tried to knock the stone down but was unsuccessful, despite using a very large number of horses. As an aside, Rosas who ruled with a very bloody hand, had strict regulations about knives and facons amongst his workers and even had himself flogged for wearing a knife due to a lapse of memory. His intention was to show that no one, not even himself was above the law. Rosas was an extraordinarily tough and ruthless warrior and reputedly the finest horseman in that part of the world. He gained great notoriety for his rule through terror and the use of death suqads. Nevertheless, he manage to create a basic Argentinean sense of identity, out of anarchy, and which later heads of state amplified to create a unified nation. It is worth reading about his life and times to gain a broader understanding of 19th century Pampean life and the role of the knife. Cheers Chris